Getting Ugly In Phl

[Art at ISP]

Bob,

What kind of work do you do so someone can come in a sub contract out your A@@?

You will never understand the problems from PHL unless you work on the job 40 hours a week working under the conditions the employees work under. You are an outsider looking in and while many thank you for your flying this airline the bottom line is untill you work the field you will never understand why the Ramp is so pissed off. They have been screwed blued and tattoed, pay cut to sub industry wages, benefit cuts premium increases , manpower shortages equipment that is so scarce you have to steal from other airlines to run your bags and union that has no spine all until the other night when they stood up as one group and said Enough. I have not agreed with the union for many years on the way they have represented the workers but the bottom line on this topic is that this is there work its a closed shop under contract and I support them 100 percent.

[post="310126"][/post]​

Sorry, the bottom line of this topic is that THINGS NEED TO CHANGE. There can no longer be "closed shops" in this world. Everyone must pitch in and make it work. Get over the you can only do this and I can only do that mentality--there's no longer a place for it in this world. If the contract stipulates that policy, then the contract needs to be changed.

Granted there needs to be change on both sides, and management needs to pitch in and give you the tools, but at some point you have to realize that there's a new management, and not everything they do is an attempt to screw you. You are not even giving them a chance. This is where things are going to go astray, and so far it's only in PHL.

I have a feeling that if this continues unabated, management will shrug their shoulders and pull PHL down--I am sure that PIT has room for the international flights, and CLT can handle some more.

I am not assessing blame here, but no matter who's ultimately responsible, THINGS CANNOT STAY AS THEY ARE.

It is becoming apparent that no one really cares about fixing the problem....and that is the sad part....

 

[longing4piedmont]

The whole tone of this thread just pizzes me off.

[post="310098"][/post]​

I know I'm a day late, but Happy Birthday anyway!

 

[700UW]

No time to respond now, other than to say maybe just maybe that was the original intent of management 23 pages ago. Just want to save the quote before pointing out how ironic it is.

Too much blue water?

I'll be back.............................

[post="310130"][/post]​

Gee don't let the origninal facts get in your way, they were told FIVE days in a row not to load or unload the A/C, on the SIXTH day the crap hit the fan as they did it again. That is pure provacation. When US management tells them they cannot do that and then they are sent home packing because of the mess they created, they are clearly in the wrong.

And I am glad to see since you have never worked in industry and have not been and never worked in PHL under the conditions the ramp is faced with and I am glad to see you have the all world knowledge to know what is and has taken place.

When I have been on the ramp in PHL there are bags everywhere on the ground as there is not enough carts for a simple offload of one flight. Have you witnessed it? I have. Have you witnessed rampers scrounging the whole airport for a tug? Have you been mandatoried five days a week for an extra six to eight hours a day? Not seeing your family?

So take your insults and put them somewhere else and comeback when you can add something with intelligence.

 

[700UW]

Sorry, the bottom line of this topic is that THINGS NEED TO CHANGE. There can no longer be "closed shops" in this world. Everyone must pitch in and make it work. Get over the you can only do this and I can only do that mentality--there's no longer a place for it in this world. If the contract stipulates that policy, then the contract needs to be changed.

[post="310132"][/post]​

Too bad so sad, the Collective Bargaining Agreement is a legal and binding contract under the Railway Labor Act a Federal Law. It has been changed three times since 2002, management had the opportunity to change it and they did as they seemed necessary.

A closed shop is needed in this industry as you have never worked in it, and never worked for US management, you all whined when they changed your precious frequent flier perks, imagine working under the conditions they ramp has endured for ages in PHL, you have not so you have no idea.

The problems could have been fixed in PHL it has been almost a year and MANAGEMENT HAS FAILED AGAIN!

The IAM fleet service don't schedule manpower, are not responsible for getting additional equipment for the station to ensure it has enough, that all falls on management's duties.

I just love how all your sideline QBs think you have all the answers when you have no clue. If you all think you have the answer apply for a management job at US and see what you can do.

 

[Art at ISP]

700,

I have more of a clue than you think. I know most of what you're saying is true, but the closed shop mentality as a whole needs to go.
There is no longer a place for it in today's world--in any industry. And I am sure that the union side has broken the contract as well at times, so don't go crying about a contract is a contract anymore...it doesn't hold water.. The union would break it in a heartbeat if they felt it was in their best interest.

I always faulted management for not giving you the tools needed to do your jobs, but there has to be change...they have to do their part, and you have to do yours. This whole US against THEM BS has to stop at some point. The change has to be on both sides....and you can't keep punishing the new management for the past. Without change you're doomed...

If this situation does not materially change soon, it will endanger the whole company, and I would not be surprised if they just walk away from PHL...and I am sorry to say they will be right to do so.

The good of the many outweigh the good of the few.

It is sad that everyone chooses to argue over this, and NO ONE CARES TO TRY TO FIX IT.

I don't see anyone trying to expend any energy on trying to fix it. THIS is the biggest problem--no one cares to try to fix it.

It's time for BOTH sides to try to get over themselves and try to work together.

It's not personal, 700, it's fact. Without change there's no hope. Both sides have to get their heads out of the sand, and NOW.

 

[700UW]

Not having a closed shop will only make the union represent people that don't pay dues, it does not eliminate Collective Bargaining Agreements and the company having to adhere to them

So I guess you don't have as much of a clue as you think you do.

Having been through two bankruptcies where thousands were laid-off and billions in concessions were given by employees while management collected millions for being failures shows you the unions and CBAs are needed in this industry.

If all of us at US were non-union without a contract the company would have been fit to do anything they wanted too with the workers having no say in the matter. Since you have not lived it I would not expect to actually understand that.

Go ask the agents and the ramp what happened to them in 1992 when they did not have the power of a CBA and a union behind them. Having a union and contract is a necessary check and balence in this industry.

Look at WN they have the highest % of unionized workers and are the highest paid in the industry, and their MANAGEMENT have a clue, unlike US' management.

Go ask the workers in High Point, NC at Thomas Bus ( division of Freightliner) why they just unionized? People in industry are realizing the benefits of having a say in the workplace and conditions they work under and work for.

 

[Art at ISP]

700,

What part of "It's a New Management" don't you understand? A couple of holdovers don't ruin the whole pot. You aren't even willing to give them a chance.

It appears that the union doesn't even want to be part of the solution--it's more important that no one picks up a bag--it's okay for the bag to sit there rather than to get it on the airplane (oversimplification but that's how it looks).

Perception is reality to most, 700, and you folks are not making yourselves look good right now.

It's another management who did all these things, and I agree with you, they were completely wrong. But there's a new team running things, and I fail to see why you don't at least talk to them about this....

This is a Pi##ing contest that no one's gonna win.

Why is this problem only happening in PHL??????

There's no double standard--the union would break the CBA in a heartbeat if the reason was good enough. So why not get the two sides together and say, "This is no longer gonna work". I am sure that the new management WOULD like to include enhanced productivity and workrule changes...but no one is willing to take the first step and say "let's talk"--and THAT is the biggest problem.

Look forward, not backward....otherwise there's no hope.

Like I said before---we now have 24 pages of BS and not one solid idea on how to fix it.....and that's downright sad.

 

[longing4piedmont]

Ah, looks like I hit a nerve (or was that a turd).

I don't care whose fault it is. It's broke and it needs to be fixed. If you want a job long term; worked to get it fixed. But I will tell you this I've flown through PHL and every other US city enough to know you now are working in a city that the IAM goons are too LAZY to get up all their asses and go to work. We don't see the issues or attitudes in the other stations, so to me that says it all. You see as a customer all I care about is results and YOU are not offering them. With your attitude I quite frankly just hope PHL goes away and the cancer disappears.

Are you so thick that you fail to see the stupidity of suggesting a customer work the ramp to see the issues while at the same time refusing to allow management to do the same? Is your hatred of all things management strong you can not see how wrong you are. You are setting your self for a fight you can not and will not win. You are setting yourself to finally get what you deserve with this attitude.

As for my opinions, I will state them here loudly and strongly. If you don't care for them, then go away. I will speak my opinion, about you, the IAM and management when and where I please. If you view it as an insult then so be it.

Got it?

 

[700UW]

If a worker does not perform his/her job the company has the right to issue discipline upto termination.

But since you don't work at US nor on the ramp, maybe you don't understand how management tells the leads how to set up the zones.

Management has signed a legal and binding contract and have to adhere to it, are you so ignorant you cant comprehend the facts even US management told the HP trainers not to perform IAM/Fleet Service covered work and still did? Maybe the HP trainers should be fired for not following management's directives.

You are not an IAM member, nor a US employee you have no idea of what has transpired and still what goes on.

And you lose all your credibility when you call people names, ie "GOONS".

Funny thing is it is ironic when US took away your perks, you FF's organized your own union, call it what you want but the "Roaches" FFOCUS is a union.

And why is it ok for management and the executives to have a contract and work rules, but not the rank and file worker?

You armchair QBs amaze me when you think you can solve all US' problems by getting rid of the unions, last time I checked management runs the airline, not the workers.

 

[Art at ISP]

700

I never said get rid of the unions, and agree that would be a bad idea.

And perhaps you're also right that the HP trainers should be disciplined or fired if they disobeyed their own management. No argument there.

So what about changing the workrules then?? I don't see you answering that one? Maybe change would be good for the union AND management...but no one is willing to take the first step to explore that possibility. The union is too focused on punishing the new management for the crimes of FORMER management, and can't see the forest but for the trees....

By the same token, perhaps management needs to invite the union to talk about this....SOMEONE has to make the first move.

And I am sure that there are members of the union who are breaking the contract EVERY day, so don't go there again--you sound like a broken record.

And we organized into a customer (and later employee) advocacy group, not a union. We had an effective dialog with (mis)management until they didn't like what we said about them. While it started about potential "perks" it CHANGED into something much more, and we remain dedicated to the customers AND the employees of US Airways.

I am not calling anyone names, but L4PI has a point about this nonsense only happening in PHL.....and in the general scheme of things, it is nonsense.

 

[longing4piedmont]

I am not calling anyone names, but L4PI has a point about this nonsense only happening in PHL.....and in the general scheme of things, it is nonsense.

[post="310160"][/post]​

Time to quit putting sugar on it my friend. These folks DON"T want to get it. Might as well hit em upside the head.

I'll be back...... Too much fun. Great way to spend the afternoon and I'm looking forward to it !!!!!!!

 

[700UW]

Go back and read my previous posts.

The work rules have been changed three times since 2002 with three concessionary contracts.

Scope language is the basis for everyone's job, giving up the exclusive right to load and unload planes at the hubs would equal more job loss, there is nothing left to cut when it comes to work rules in regard to loading and unloading.

The IAM has tried to work with PHL management and Crellin, this management would rather declare war on the employees and pick a fight then to actually fix the problem.

US outsourced numerous fleet stations but yet failed to move the equipment to PHL to ease the crunch there, instead they gave it or sold it very cheap to the vendors now performing the work. It has been almost a year and Crellin has failed to fix the problems at PHL.

Bottom line is the HP plane did not leave for an hour, they only had one beltloader available to use for the flight, the HP trainers were at fault.

You can only walk by the locked gate and poke the dog with a stick so many times until one day the gate is unlocked and the dog will fight back.

The company can discipline any worker who fails to meet their obligation, the union's only recourse against the company when they company violates the contract is to file a grievance. I have no problem with the company disciplining someone who fails to perform their work, discipline it not to punish but to correct behavior.

 

[Breath_of_Fresh_USAirways]

I'd love to see Doug/HP throw a bunch of new equipment, employees, and supervisors at PHL and give 'em an ultimatum (sp?) -- "Here ya go. This is what YOU said YOU need to get the job done. (You didn't let us find out if that's true or not -- we're taking your word for it.) And if you can't, well, then, you're outta here." All of 'em. Managers, supervisors, rampers, EVERY SINGLE person that IS SUPPOSEDLY RESPONSIBLE for the impending MESS -- if you can't all get along and WORK to KEEP THE CUSTOMER happy, then there's no place for you in the new U because that's what your JOB IS, whether it's spelled out in your precious contract or not. Period. 'Cause without customers, none of us have jobs. End of story.

Sounds like a simple solution to me.

 

[D M G]

Why do you assume that the HP people were "testing" the agents? What was there to learn by provoking a confrontation? It doesn't make sense.


Regarding the ramp agents, when we finally did get parked the gate agent who pulled the jetway mentioned to the captain that that WAS the parking team, but they refused to park the plane because it wasn't their zone.

[post="310059"][/post]​

They were told by U management and FSA to stop working the flights, they thought it was funny and continued. The HP Sups thought they could flex some muscle and test PHL...and it didn't work. They were ordered out of PHL on the next flight by people at the highest level. It will not be tolerated, even for a second, should it happen again (which I doubt it will).

Art, did you even read what you wrote regarding the parking crew? What doesn't make sense is what the jetway driver told the Captain. How can a team be the parking crew for a gate, but refuse to work it because it's out of their zone? It's either in their zone or out of their zone. I call BS on this story somewhere along the line.

 

[tadjr]

Just curious why you think the trainers thought they had to load the plane. I dont see them doing that this week in another city. Why PHL? I didnt hear about any problems in PIT last week or the week before. Why PHL?
Also, no one on here is addressing any of the other things mentioned that had NOTHING to do with the belt loader. Even if they were doing those things, it still doesnt excuse the supposed response by some of the PHL ramp agents (heard about from a PHL agent). The HP people (from agents to trainers to Manager to Regional) have all been more than helpful in addressing issues we've had and brought to their attention in regards to US handling the HP flight.
Funny again how its only PHL that has had problems in this regard. Maybe their just bucking for a surround sound system this year to go with the big screen tv. 😉
I know there are serious staffing and equipment issues, but they need to be addressed in a professional way. If there really is that much of a problem, why isnt the local getting the national involved in addressing the issues. You know whose fault it is going to be if things happen again this year in PHL. I would think the IAM local president would be screaming for someone to fly to Tempe and personally have a meeting with Dougie showing facts such as how much equipment it takes to run as planned, how many PHL actually has, and how many are actually working (agents and other equipment). Anyone know if someone outside of the PHL ramp room on the IAM side is involved? If not, then I would say its time for the PHL agents to get on someone from the IAM to address the issues as well.