Getting Ugly In Phl

[US1YFARE]

I'm not saying who is right and who is wrong, but when I was in PHX yesterday, I heard a lot of people LAUGHING about the "idiot" rampers in PHL and how PHL is in for a shock when Doug comes to town--their words, not mine--wasn't even part of the conversation. There were also pax on my flight talking about a "scuffle" between gate agents at US/East and US/West over boarding a flight and the flight was delayed because of this "scuffle"--their words, not mine.

 

[700UW]

What is so hard to understand the company agreed that the loading and unloading of planes in PHL is IAM Fleet Service Covered work?

That is the scope language which is the basis for the whole contract, the IAM does not schedule the workers or makes sure PHL has all the ground equipment needed, that is management's function and we all know management from Crellin down has failed PHL.

 

[PITbull]

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN...........THIS IS GOD SPEAKING......

THIS DIALOGUE HAS GONE LONG ENOUGH WITH FEW TANGIBLE RESULTS....THE HORSE HAS BEEN DEAD FOR ...ERR...AT LEAST 20 PAGES...
I COMMAND YOU TO PRAY FOR THE WELFARE OF YOUR NEW COMPANY...ADHERE TO THE GOLDEN RULE...AND MOVE ON TO A NEW TOPIC...OR I'LL SMOTE YOU AND YOUR CATTLE...AND SEND YOU INTO THE DESERT...FOR AT LEAST 40 YEARS....

AMEN

[post="310099"][/post]​

This is the best post on this topic...LOL....

 

[700UW]

You will always be anti-union, you even said the IAM should open the contract up and settle the airbus dispute, when the work was rightfully ours and a judge and arbitrator said so. Is that your solution to everything? When management fails, change the workers contract and have them suffer?

When will you ever understand that the work belongs to the workers and how will you measure performance it is impossible to watch every flight and every circumstance that can and will affect performance.

It has been 10 months and nothing has changed in PHL. Go visit CLT and D-con on a saturday evening and you will see the samething, not enough equipment to work all the international flights and not enough time to get the bags to customs, inspected, rechecked to the next flights and out to the plane to make the connections.

Compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges, like I said, go work the ramp one night and then you will have your eyes opened to the challenges faced their.

 

[PITbull]

700,

What part of "It's a New Management" don't you understand? A couple of holdovers don't ruin the whole pot. You aren't even willing to give them a chance.

It appears that the union doesn't even want to be part of the solution--it's more important that no one picks up a bag--it's okay for the bag to sit there rather than to get it on the airplane (oversimplification but that's how it looks).

Perception is reality to most, 700, and you folks are not making yourselves look good right now.

It's another management who did all these things, and I agree with you, they were completely wrong. But there's a new team running things, and I fail to see why you don't at least talk to them about this....

This is a Pi##ing contest that no one's gonna win.

Why is this problem only happening in PHL??????

There's no double standard--the union would break the CBA in a heartbeat if the reason was good enough. So why not get the two sides together and say, "This is no longer gonna work". I am sure that the new management WOULD like to include enhanced productivity and workrule changes...but no one is willing to take the first step and say "let's talk"--and THAT is the biggest problem.

Look forward, not backward....otherwise there's no hope.

Like I said before---we now have 24 pages of BS and not one solid idea on how to fix it.....and that's downright sad.

[post="310148"][/post]​

Art,

Geezus, I'm surprised that you would say this so wholeheartedly. You must know where we came from, and to imply that we all need to look ahead and forget what we experienced because some of us are still here today to have jobs.... The new managment is the old managment with the same mentality.

I think that at times, customers need to be some what silent on certain issues that effect Labor, specifically our labor groups. You will not reslove issues such as these on a message board.

You, of all, should know that. If you haven't noticed, of all the posts on this particular thread, the customers have literally sparked more anger than any other group of posters. Customers who have not nearly been as effected by this transition than the employees, or know the scope of the jobs and their problems.

I don't think it logical or fair or even reasonably minded to say to a holocost victim or the black citizens in the South who lived through the 60's that they should just get over their negative experiences and move on cause no one wants to hear about it anymore. Folks learn from history, and from that experience, it drives "change". And that is the obvious from the perch we sit today.

And as all can see, reality is dictated by whom? US Airways experience is now effecting all the lagacies and its employees. I don't think anyone is thinking about forgeting. Specifically when our execs are leaving wealthier than they came in.

If labor on the East still feels guarded when it comes to trusting any new management, and rely on their contract for as much protection as they have left, there should be no apologies for that. And, the discussion should not just be dismissed.

 

[Hawk]

The change has to be on both sides....and you can't keep punishing the new management for the past. Without change you're doomed...

You are 100% correct. The problem is that the union won't work with management. Doug is "pro" customer and employee. If a pilot, supervisor or executive wants to assist an employee with his/her job to achieve 100% customer satisfaction, then I am all for it. Remember Lavman, it is about the customer, not your union. Sometimes you have to go outside the CBA to achieve a customer satisfaction. Either jump on board with the "new" management philosophy or find a new job.

There has been a huge increase in morale in the last few weeks. It is time to work together, not against each other. I am just happy that I don't have to deal with your anti-management venom. You have good people like the truth that are doing everything possible to see that the new usair is successful.

I can't tell you the number of times that I have hard stories and witnessed in person PHL ground employees sitting in the breakroom while they should be working.

Your group needs to work smarter and more efficient. The problems at PHL would greatly improve if you took this approach. The same with the f/a group. They need to be more efficient.

Hey Pitbull, I didn't have some union rep negotiate my contract hoping that it would benefit my position. I did it myself, so stop complaining about our contracts. They were approved and were honored. God forbid that someone breaks your precious union contract but it is fine if a judge breaks ours. Guess what...he didn't. I am in a much better position financially then I was before I arrived at usair. We could have achieved a great airline if the unions would have worked with us in the late 90's.

It really doesn't matter who the CEO is currently, you will always fine a way to insult and not work with any management. That is the problem with labor unions and is why they should be dissolved.

 

[longing4piedmont]

Hawk

Good to see you back. Home for the weekend or just posting late given your local time zone after a night out at the "wives club"?

 

[luvn737s]

The RLA does not force the shop to be closed, Alaska Airlines was an open shop. A closed shop is a negotiated item between the company and the union, it is not forced upon them by the RLA.

The contracts have been amended three times in less then three years for concessions. They are not amendable till 2009, the company has to abide by them.

[post="310187"][/post]​

The difference between open and closed shop is that you are required to be a member of a closed shop. The RLA doesn't require you to be a member, but it does require you to pay an agency fee (non-member) or dues (member). Non members are still represented by the union with repect to contract administration, grievance processing and representation in front of the company. The union is obligated to provide these services to non-members equally with members since they are collecting agency fees. Non members lose the right to vote and some other member-specific priviledges.

 

[700UW]

You agreed to the contracts and you have to honor them.

Lets go outside your former contract and see how you like it.

You destroyed all labor-management relation with the IAM by outsourcing the Airbus work. You have to earn the trust of the employees and the track record over the past three years has shown you neither respect the employees or will honor the very contracts you signed.

And since you were in charge of labor relations and you say they were sitting in the breakrooms and not working why were they not disciplined?

You have the recourse to make people work, sounds like your management was and still are failures.

The Truth got a job with at Tempe and you did not, sucks to be you huh?

And HP employees will learn how ignorant and arrogant The Truth is.

And how would you know how to deal with me? You sat in the room once and let your hired gun Doug McKeen destroy the IAM Mechanic and Related employees while you sat in your spacious corner office.

 

[elixir]

I'm a furloughed employee, so this shouldn't spark too much dander. Nobody has suggested you forget anything, or not be guarded about the future. What IS being suggested is that nobody hide behind a contract(not implying you are) and take your guarded skepticism with you INTO THE FUTURE OF THE COMPANY, and work towards bettering the product..the very survival of this company is riding on this attitude. Guarded skepticism does NOT have to paralyze productivity. It's merely guarded skepticism. Negative skepticism is fatally contagious...and we mustn't let it spread to all parts of the whole. Your skepticism affects PAX skepticism, affects other employee groups skepticism..etc,etc...

 

[PITbull]

Thanks Art. Now you have stirred up HAWK to put in managment's 2 cents, who created all the havoc on this property and became wealthy over it.

Good job.

Guess what HAWK, you won't be getting one damn thing more from this f/a group.

Just for your fyi...if your Labor Relations croney doesn't reform the DCP program to more reasonable and balanced system...the PIT President WILL NOT BE RESIGNING IN DECEMBER.

And please do let your AWA counter part know this fact.

 

[700UW]

In a closed shop you are not required to me a member of the union, all you have to do is pay dues for what is germane to the contract.

 

[PITbull]

Hey Pitbull, I didn't have some union rep negotiate my contract hoping that it would benefit my position. I did it myself, so stop complaining about our contracts.  They were approved and were honored. God forbid that someone breaks your precious union contract but it is fine if a judge breaks ours. Guess what...he didn't. I am in a much better position financially then I was before I arrived at usair.   We could have achieved a great airline if the unions would have worked with us in the late 90's.

It really doesn't matter who the CEO is currently, you will always fine a way to insult and not work with any management. That is the problem with labor unions and is why they should be dissolved.

[post="310224"][/post]​

Hey HAWKer,

You know as well as I do, that without unions, you would not have any union busting work.

Now where would that leave you? Yea, working a real job, and not betting for a BK judge to approve the contract for bonuses that was drawn up by some California Havard lawyer who testified for you.

And you are correct. I won't work with any managment of any company that hires or consults with union busters.

 

[700UW]

You have to contact LL 1776 and management for that to happen.

Maybe if they had the equipment and manpower you would get your bags.

Why are you trying to blame the workers when clearly in 10 months Crellin has failed to fix PHL?

 

[Art at ISP]

PIT,

My point is that PHL is allegedly being as confontative and unbending as they ever were, and that they are treating the new management the same as they did the old management, which CANNOT CONTINUE. From what I have seen they won't even listen, and this closed mindedness is unacceptable. It is apparent they want a confrontation more than they want to fix the problem, and if that is indeed the case, there is no place for them at the new U.

I have a tremendous respect for you and your colleagues--you know that. And my position regarding the old management has not changed, but you need to give the new team a chance. That is my point. All this bickering and fingerpointing is counterproductive. I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S BUTT WHOSE FAULT IT WAS OR WHO DID WHAT. The fact is no one is even trying to fix it---on EITHER side, and that is unacceptable.

Regarding customers starting the anymosity here, you could not be further from the truth. True we're not on the inside, but you need to realize is that what we see is what the uneducated outside world sees, and perception is reality to most. There is no way that the PHL ramp is going to see a resolution to the problem when they are BEHAVING like they ARE the problem.

I fully support giving them the tools, the people and the equipment, and if they then can't make it work, let the chips fall where they may--both management AND labor.

Enough said--I think this topic has run its darned course.