Getting Ugly In Phl

[hp_fa]

This really is a fascinating thread to watch....


- the "we know you've been abused but this is a new day and a new management team" crowd. They just can't understand why the "used & abused" folks can't make an instant adjustment. (HP-FA, I'm a little surprise that you're in this group. How's your instant adjustment to the new reality of AFA DOH merger coming along?)

[post="308550"][/post]​

BoingBoy:

I try my best to call them as I see them. It's all I can do. We really do need to meet somewhere sometime when we are both legal to share a beer and some thoughts. (BTW, I am unhappy as hell....)

 

[luvn737s]

Luvn.....delldude is right on with this quote.............It was a LONG, what, 10 past years of extreme turbulance working for this company....no pun intended, of course.....the past years have been pure hell for many current and former emplyees at U, and I don't think you, quite frankly, see the whole picture......as dell said, if you faired better.....great......but also, be prepared for what may follow...

[post="308547"][/post]​

Well ask the HP employee who was required to buy stock as a condition of their employment who took a lousy paying job and saw that sacrifice go down the drain. Ask the HP employee about the years of negotiating contracts in the La Brea Tar Pits of Labor relations. Bring up the topic of the summer of cancelling flight after flight due to a lack of things like tires and spare parts due to penny pinching. Maybe they can tell you about how everytime they used to mention where they work, they're immediately accosted with travel horror stories; or worse, some Southwest-er who gives a feces-laden grin and whines, "I'm so sorry".

The HP people worked through this and don't waste their time looking back. U used to be a phenomenal business airline and now it's going to be a very successful, but very different type of airline and it doesn't have the luxury of pining about the past and the hopes of being repaid for all their sacrifices.
There's too much to be done and too little time before the money runs out.

There are plenty more retreads at HP than you would ever expect and they are going into this with experience on their side and eyes wide open. Disallusionment and betrayal (real or imagined) is something most airline folks have long learned to live with, but if US is to be successful, we cannot allow them to define us.

 

[hp_fa]

Nice post, Luvun737s

 

[BoeingBoy]

Well ask the HP employee....

[post="308555"][/post]​

Let me ask the HP employees this, then. The day Doug set foot on the property (assuming that's when the change started), did everyone immediately forget the past and think nothing but thoughts of how great life is? Or did it take a while for the change to sink in?

Jim

 

[hp_fa]

Let me ask the HP employees this, then.  The day Doug set foot on the property (assuming that's when the change started), did everyone immediately forget the past and think nothing but thoughts of how great life is?  Or did it take a while for the change to sink in?

Jim

[post="308558"][/post]​

Doug first set foot on the property in a VP slot over at headquarters. I did not know him by sight then. I also believe your question defines "set foot on the property" as President, CEO, etc. That is the context of my response.

Prior to Doug we had a genuinely nasty individual as CEO by the name of William Franke. Franke, a lawyer by trade, was a bankruptcy turn-around specialist who had absolutely no people skills. There are way too many Franke stories to post here to illustrate my point, but I believe the other AWA'ers will just chime in and say I am correct about that.

Anyway, on 9/1/01 Doug took over frm Franke, who retired earlier then had been planned. We didn't know if Doug was Franke, Jr. or not and were aprehensive. However we did know that Franke was gone and that was a good thing.

9/11/01 came and everything changed for all of us in the industry. At HP it was especially bad because we were to have signed a aircraft and financing deal on 9/12/01 which promptly disappeared between 0900-1000 EDT on 9/11/01. Our cash reserves were critically low, in part because we were to get a cash infusion the next day in the normal course of business and that evaporated.

For the next 2-3 days everyone scrambled to try and get a recovery plan working of getting crews home, planes positioned for when we would be allowed to fly again. Reportedly, we were the first major back in the air.

In the meantime Parker, whose background is in finance, recognized the larger problem of imminent bankruptcy inside of 60 days. He attended Congressional Hearings in DC. In fact, one elected official ask the group of airline presidents there about the chances of bankruptcy and Leo Mullin, then CEO at Delta, pointed at Parker and said "ask him, he's closest".

ATSB was being set up and Parker implored us to work as hard and as smart as we could to save all of our jobs. We did. The unions temporarily waived some contract provisions so that we could get going as fast as possible and lessen or stop the hemmoarge of money flying out the doors.

Parker went to ATSB. ATSB had set some criteria in place for any applicant to comply with before getting any federal loan guaranty. One of the topics was labor savings and Parker stood before them and sad my people are already paid at the bottom of industry scale and I cannot ask them to give anymore. ATSB acceppted tht arguement and granted the loan, with conditions, one of which was no employee giveback of wages.

Obviously Doug won credibility with us for that and we worked as hard as we could to make the planes run on time and to meet or exceed every reasonable passenger expectation. Were we perfect? No. But we were good enough to together save an airline that had looked deader then a doornail on 9/12/01.

The mutual respect has grown from there. We are all on the same team and we all profit when the team profits.

So, to answer your question, it was not immidiate, more like a crash course in saving an airline and learning something about the people you work with at the same time.

West wants to succeed. We are the only major that has been able to fight off WN to a standstill. WN is nothing new to us. We face then everyday and ride the bus to the lot with them.

So, does this help explain why we have the tendency to trust Doug?

I hoped it helped. FWIW, I will go into any foxhole anytime with Doug leading. He has the smarts, the people skills and the desire to succeed.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I see what you're saying, HP-FA. You had a crash course in keeping the airline alive and luckly had a new CEO that proved to be "the real deal".

9-11 and the immediate period after wasn't as "make or break" for us, and our CEO turned out not to be "the real deal".

So let me ask you this - suppose Franke had remained the CEO, and had managed to get everyone working together to get through the 9-11 crisis. Saying things would be different if you'd just work with him. Then, as soon as the crisis was abating, the ATSB money came in, and things were starting to look up, he had starting violating your newly signed contract, outsourcing your jobs, laying folks off, etc, how would you feel?

After a few more years of that, a new CEO comes in - saying the same things Franke had said to get everyone working together after 9-11 - that he was different, that you could trust him, etc. Would you immediately feel all warm & fuzzy? Or would you be leery, wanting proof that his intentions were good?

That's what you're asking of people over here. You're asking them to immediately trust the same words that have rang so hollow time and time again. They've trusted the words, only to have that trust used to as a bludgeon against them.

The trust will come, as long as it's earned. As you said, Doug earned your trust. He has said that he has to do the same over here. Is it so hard for you and others to understand the same?

Jim

 

[Justaramper]

As rampers quit, retire, etc, would it be ok to bring in an outside contractor to "help out"?

Jim

[post="308451"][/post]​

Isn't it time "they" looked back at the last 6 months, to figure out why some have quit this airline...?

You're getting the "bottom feeders", to replace a veteran

 

[EricLv2Fish]

Let me ask the HP employees this, then. The day Doug set foot on the property (assuming that's when the change started), did everyone immediately forget the past and think nothing but thoughts of how great life is? Or did it take a while for the change to sink in?

Jim

[post="308558"][/post]​

Good point Jim. It took a little while, but then again my attitude was healthy. US Airway folks have endured alot so it will undoubtedly take sometime.

 

[crushed]

Here's what I was able to find out........

The HP trainers where on the property to teach the PHL ramp how to work the HP flights.
The trainers were upset with the lack of equiptment and the fact that US management didn't have a "plan" for the HP flights.
In PHX the US flights have a bid crew....in PHL the HP flights were just lumped in with all the US on the schedule.
In order to avoid delays demanded 2 beltloaders be used.....not possible in PHL as we don't even have 1 per gate...and they didn't like US's scheduling of staff so they jumped in belly's to offload the flights.
The trainers were told 5 days in a row not to work the flights.....their boss was contacted by the PHL ramp manager and told the same thing.
On day 6 the union stepped in.

 

[barbeetantrums]

Why not send some rampers TDY from LAS or PHX or wherever to help on these flights? That would be less irritating than watching HP management do it. Why is their training for HP flights? An Airbus is a stinkin' Airbus.

 

[dc3fanatic]

Watch out for the lightening, 'cause I'm going to agree with PeanutButter.

If conditions are aweful in PHL, what better way to understand it than to experience it?

EDIT: perhaps the process for learning could have included talking to the unions prior.

 

[crushed]

Why not send some rampers TDY from LAS or PHX or wherever to help on these flights? That would be less irritating than watching HP management do it. Why is their training for HP flights? An Airbus is a stinkin' Airbus.




Because US does all weight and balance on the computer....and it's sent to the flight deck via acars.
HP does manual w/b on paper, on the ramp, and the flight crew needs a hard copy before they leave the gate.
Kinda like the majors did it 20 years ago.

 

[700UW]

Bottom line is management violated the CBA. It has been the IAM's membership's work.

Management failed to plan, plain and simple.

At US lots of rank and file members are trainers in CLT for example the ramp had regular fleet service employees doing the training for pushbacks and working the EMB-170.

After several years of givebacks and three concessionary contracts, managment needs to learn to respect and abide by the very agreements they signed.

 

[robbedagain]

why not see if and how many furloughed ramp agent come to help out in phl? also will the HP planes get the acars system and their wb put into the computers?

 

[barbeetantrums]

why not see if and how many furloughed ramp agent come to help out in phl? also will the HP planes get the acars system and their wb put into the computers?

[post="308597"][/post]​

Already have ACARS. Have for a quite awhile.