Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[robbedagain]

Kev if both ACS and FAs do get IAM how long do u think itll be before Above Wing goes union also do u think it wld add pressure for AW to go union?

 

[WorldTraveler]

By overall pay and benefits for the entire group YES they do.

 
no they don't.

for you to believe that AA employees ALL of them have work rule and medical benefits that are worth more than 8% more than what DL employees get in scale pay and profit sharing is simply false.

If so, prove it.

You and others pick out a couple cases of people complaining about their health care deductibles at the first of the year.

did you bother to listen to the President last night talking about health care costs?

further, employees DO NOT equally use health care benefits - use is skewed towards more senior workers and many get health care benefits from other sources, including their spouse's employer. Kev has noted on here that he gets his health care benefits that way.

thus, if DL cut profit sharing in order to be "on par" with AA or even UA but got better health care, Kev and other DL employees would see a REAL cut in total compensation.

and all of the extra vacation pay that AA FAs supposedly get is heavily skewed to topped out employees.

ALL DL employees get 16% of their pay in profit sharing.


 

Show us any union CBA for a newly organized group that their compensation went down.

and once again, all DL has to do is drop the amount of PAY and PROFIT SHARING INCREASES and DL employees will very quickly become just INDUSTRY AVERAGE in terms of compensation.

that is exactly what WN - the most unionized airline - is doing. they are dragging their feet in settling contracts while AA and DL are racing to increase pay with the result that it won't take long before WN employees' above average pay is now just average.

and, interestingly, the pressure on other carriers including UA as well as the LCCs to increase their pay or face even more labor unrest is greatly increased.

AA and DL are financially able to do what they are doing and are doing in part because they are making it harder for other carriers to compete with the higher labor costs that will become the norm for the US industry
 
 

It's hilarious that WT boasts about all the stations D E L T A presently has mainline ramp employees (Delta had 14 at the time of the merger). When the real reason is that the 40 stations that NWA brought to the merger had IAM Union represented employees under contract working the ramp that would have been vendored out during BK if not for the IAM (to the DGS like clone "GroundCo").
 
Those stations were still open post BK not because of NWA management, but because of the IAM standing its ground.
 
How did that compare to the unrepresented Delta ramp employees during BK?

no, what is hilarious is that some here can't see that DL RETAINED those stations because it made business sense to do so and when you remove the company's ability to use RR's - the largest reason why DL has been able to maintain those cities - DL's motivation to keep them open is gone and those cities are just as vulnerable as small and medium sized cities are for AA and UA.

and while you brag about what the IAM did at NW in BK, plez give me a list of the cities that NW DID succeed in outsourcing during BK and then compare it to the list of cities that DL closed to its own people in BK.

and, robbed, DL already has far more above wing staffed stations than AA and UA and if DL loses the incentive to maintain BW stations because of union rules while AW retains that ability, the gap between the number of AW and BW staffed stations will only grow.

hey, I'm just an outsider so I won't be affected but if you think for one minute that imposing union work rules including eliminating the RR program and expecting DL to continue to pay as much as it has including profit sharing, then you need to be drug tested.

a union will simply get you the same rearrangement of compensation items that has existed at AA and UA. outsource or trade work rules for lower pay.

DL WILL NOT increase costs compared to AA and UA using the same union standard work rules they have while continuing to pay and increase above average compensation.

it simply will not happen. and those who think otherwise are dangerously flirting with their and their coworkers' pocketbooks.

 

[700UW]

You do know DL's can't change anything it has to be negotiated.

You are truly clueless.

Like I stated show us where a newly organized group first CBA that they were compensated less, your failure to do so already shows the board you can't and you are lying again.

They didn't "punish" the pilots nor the dispatchers, your post smells of fear and desperation.

Your lying and posting misinformation once again.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you are clueless if you think that DL or any other company is obligated to continue to offer the same amount of increases that they have offered.

DL has raised the compensation of its employees FASTER than any other airline in the US over the past 7 years.

DL is under NO OBLIGATION to continue those increases.

it would take very little time of just sitting on their current pay and benefit levels before DL people with a union are just AVERAGE in pay with other employees... that is exactly what is happening with WN.

The only lie is from those who refuse to accept that DL employees face enormous risk in falling for the "they will continue to throw money at us while we eliminate the productivity advantage that DL has long had relative to its peers."

that could be a very costly lie for DL people to believe and I care too much about my former coworkers to allow them to make that kind of mistake.

 

[Kev3188]

Can someone tell me where exactly the idea of "eliminating" the RR program is coming from? I've yet to hear a single word of that other than from one poster on this board.

 

[700UW]

Status quo is the law under the Railway Labor Act, you are truly clueless on it and Section 6 negotiations.

You fear is rampant.

12,000 and counting.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Can someone tell me where exactly the idea of "eliminating" the RR program is coming from? I've yet to hear a single word of that other than from one poster on this board.

incessant whining about it from you and others and how it is non-standard from what AA and UA do.

are you going to tell me that you believe that the IAM would negotiate a contract that would not include limitations on DL's ability to use RR's.

Status quo is the law under the Railway Labor Act, you are truly clueless on it and Section 6 negotiations.

You fear is rampant.

12,000 and counting.

the fear is from you and your unwillingness to admit that the STATUS QUO applies to NOW... not what is happening in the future.

DL is under NO OBLIGATION to continue to offer the same rate of pay and compensation increases that they have before including the continuation of profit sharing at the same levels.

you have argued for years that DL could do whatever they want with its AT WILL employees.

now that it is obvious to you that DL could in fact do exactly that, including dry up profit sharing and pay increases, you want to argue that DL cannot change the terms of its employment, then it is apparent you were either telling lies before or you are telling lies now.

they both cannot be true.

and the reality is that DL COULD HAVE AND CAN change terms at any time but they have not because they want to keep their people paid above average to keep them productive - to the benefit of the employees and the company.

those two things will not happen together with a union in place that pushes industry standard work rules but above average compensation.

the two are incompatible and WN is the perfect example of what happens when the two are out of line.

 

[700UW]

Status quo applies till there is a CBA negotiated and ratified or after a 30 day cooling off period expires.
 
You are truly clueless and ignorant about the RLA and Section 6.
 
Laboratory conditions.
 
Educate yourself.
 
Your spewing lies and misinformation.
 
So since when are you Labor Relations for DL?
 
Your left over eight years ago, you took the money and ran, you were never an FA and you never will be.
 
Your fear and desperation increases with each post.

 

[Kev3188]

 

Can someone tell me where exactly the idea of "eliminating" the RR program is coming from? I've yet to hear a single word of that other than from one poster on this board.

 
Anyone?

 

[WeAAsles]

 
 
Anyone?

I'm the ONLY one mentioning the RR program there at DL. I'm mentioning it because someone wants to try and imply that DL employees are ALL compensated better than their peers in the industry which is far from so.

I'd LOVE to know what DL's TOTAL cost for in house ground handling work is in relation to their peers? If UAL has to cite DL as one of the reason it needs to close Stations and outsource jobs then it must mean that DL's costs are LOWER than UAL?

I personally don't like the RR system for a number of reasons. #1 first and foremost my Union and my company have to compete against those low wage workers. It makes it obviously very difficult to continue to maintain good quality jobs if your competitor has a 35% workforce of "economic slaves" at their disposal.

#2 I wouldn't really enjoy the thought that my wages and benefits are brought to me because others are being taken advantage of. It's a moral thought in my head.

#3 it's in my concern for others that I also find it abhorrent. No one can make a living on a job that only pays $10.00 per hour or so and you can be at the beck and call of DL throughout the day as well. How can any of these people hold down a second job? The job as it is sounds more like a job for an 18 year old who lives with his parents who only wants it for beer money.

Without a Union and a contract to specify how long I may be stuck under the RR system it wouldn't be a job I would ever be interested in. And I'm sorry for those who are for whatever reason they feel they might have to be?

 

[WorldTraveler]

horse pucky.

Kev and other ACTIVE DL employees have whined about the RR program for years.

You can't argue that ALL AA employees are better compensated even with profit sharing compared to all DL employees.

the better benefits that AA is for a limited part of the population - esp. at AA where the workforce is more senior. DL has grown the airline and has more younger seniority employees who benefit MORE by profit sharing than by giving higher cost benefits to the highest seniority employees.

DL's compensation model does a better job of spreading the wealth with as much of the population than any union based compensation model where pay and benefits are tailored to those in power which are largely higher seniority people.

NO one HAS to do any job including working RR for DL. DL attracts a lot of intelligent people who want flexible work schedules that is heavily centered on the most peak travel periods of the year.

you don't have to want the job. It's not for you.

RR is a different term for a system that DL has used since well before deregulation. And there are many, many DL people who started as part-time, non-benefitted employees and have moved up - or who earned the money they needed and moved on to other jobs.

One of my very good friends worked for DL exactly under this type of program while in college, quit when he got a career that was related to his degree and nothing about what DL does, and is now a Diamond Medallion on DL - and remains a very big fan of the way DL does business.

the system works to the benefit of many people and the company.

you and others simply do not want to admit it because it doesn't allow the union to create long-term union members.

 

[700UW]

 

[700UW]

 

[Kev3188]

 
I hear ya, but I'm curious where all this talk of allegedly "eliminating" the RR program at DL is coming from..

 

[700UW]