Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[DAL Mech]

That other poster has taken all the air out of this topic once again.Is there anyone else besides Kev that works FOR DL on the ramp on this board?  Are there any FA's on ths board that are DL FA's besides Baba? And finally how many current or former DL employees on ths board are interested in union organizing posts? Waist of band width . Let's find a topic like how long before the 744 is gone or what will replace it .This has become a hobby for one person to argue and bait others. This new topic line is just an attempt to start things up again. Lock it in my opinion.Not worth following.

 
 
Thats the very reason I dont read this board often and post even less. The pro-union folks think they know whats right for us and look down on people thta dont want a union. Talking to my fellow co-workers, no one, even the former NW guys, want a union.

 

[Kev3188]

That other poster has taken all the air out of this topic once again.Is there anyone else besides Kev that works FOR DL on the ramp on this board?  Are there any FA's on ths board that are DL FA's besides Baba? And finally how many current or former DL employees on ths board are interested in union organizing posts? Waist of band width . Let's find a topic like how long before the 744 is gone or what will replace it .This has become a hobby for one person to argue and bait others. This new topic line is just an attempt to start things up again. Lock it in my opinion.Not worth following.

Meto--

There are more ramp & F/A's on here than you might think. Obviously, the actual campaigns aren't occurring here (or A.Net, or FB, or...), but there's nothing wrong with having a discussion.

Oh, and for the record, I hope the Whale outlasts us both...

 

[Kev3188]

Thats the very reason I dont read this board often and post even less. The pro-union folks think they know whats right for us and look down on people thta dont want a union. Talking to my fellow co-workers, no one, even the former NW guys, want a union.

Given the imposed terms they brought to the table, I can't blame them. I can also say that in my (admittedly limited) interaction with Tech Ops people, it seems you are all treated much more professionally than ACS is. It's enviable.

 

[Kev3188]

Are we not allowed to make the determination that we need saving on our own (are you implying that you know better)?

Can we dispense with the myth that workers are like waifs in the pouring rain waiting to be saved?

We're not hapless victims, Yoyo (at least I don't see us that way). We're a group of professionals that deserve a better workplace/working conditions than what we have right now.

Like I said in the locked thread; I don't need a union, I want one. There's a big difference.

 

[yoyodyne]

Can we dispense with the myth that workers are like waifs in the pouring rain waiting to be saved?

We're not hapless victims, Yoyo (at least I don't see us that way). We're a group of professionals that deserve a better workplace/working conditions than what we have right now.

Like I said in the locked thread; I don't need a union, I want one. There's a big difference.

 
I see what you did there...
I agree, we are not hapless victims, I was replying to 700's assertion that we were...
 

Nope, I am doing my part to ensure DL's ACS and FA employees get a say in the workplace, with a CBA, just like the pilots and dispatchers have.

Respect in the workplace and not a one way street.

 
Re-read the savior's statement..
 

<sarcasm>
Some questions,
 
Who appointed you messiah and savior of the DL workers?  
Are we not allowed to make the determination that we need saving on our own (are you implying that you know better)?
Why is it, that when someone post something you don't like, its always "misinformation"?
 
</sarcasm>

 
 
There, I fixed it.

 

[700UW]

And once again you make it about me and cant debate the facts, when are you going to refute the flyers that you said arent truthful?

 

[Kev3188]

I see what you did there...

Yes, "we." Nothing crafty.

Are you not an active dept. 120 employee? I'm assuming you take the work we (collective sense) do seriously. Should I not?

 

[yoyodyne]

Yes, "we." Nothing crafty.

Are you not an active dept. 120 employee? I'm assuming you take the work we (collective sense) do seriously. Should I not?

 
Kev,
 
I do!  Our work is serious business. People have no idea what it is to work the ramp, The heat/cold, wind/rain/snow, the sadness/joy that it is to work aircraft.  The fun it can be, the seriousness that it often is.  However, from MY perspective, I don't need a union.  We as a group, had a vote, and elected NOT to have a union.  You are entitled to your perspective, however do not confuse your perspective with the current prevalent WE perspective (at least in my station).

 

[Kev3188]

I'm glad we share the mindset about what we do.


That said, are you really saying nothing listed on any of these fliers relates to you? Not seeing any of it in your station?

If you are experiencing any of the same reality as many of us are, what would you propose to fix it? What we have isn't working.

 

[WorldTraveler]

It's not an issue of not wanting to follow posted rules. If the company wants a genuinely safe workplace, then let's both work towards getting there. Same story when doing a "post-mortem" on an accident and/or injury that has occurred. That's simply not happening right now.


And when one's PL demands they go out onto a closed ramp, what should the punishment be?

How 'bout making them use GSE known to be defective?

What about issuing corrective action for taking a "safety timeout" if it results in a delay?


Well, we're in the US. And here, you at least get due process. Asking the same in the workplace isn't too much to ask- especially if/when you know you're in the right.

I want to understand that "go work in a storm" situation.

Tell me how DL is not repairing GSE and making people use defective equipment.

I'm not saying it could never happen but these situations both sound highly out of character with what I and others have seen. At Delta AND at other peer legacy US airlines.

Other countries have due process, too.

They just make the punishment severe enough that the point is to OBEY the law.

And I still struggle to see how the things DL is asking employees to do is difficult.... you answered with a list of what you said mgmt. is doing... is that supposed to justify labor breaking rules? if not, what difference does it make in the company's safety campaign?

Meto--

There are more ramp & F/A's on here than you might think. Obviously, the actual campaigns aren't occurring here (or A.Net, or FB, or...), but there's nothing wrong with having a discussion.

Oh, and for the record, I hope the Whale outlasts us both...

since the whale's days are likely numbered, I want YOU to outlast the whale by decades. Many of them.

 

[Kev3188]

 

Yes, the DL I worked for IS the same airline that Kev, meto, and yoyo work for today.

Sure it's the same corporation, but the dynamics are wildly different from even 5 short years ago.

As for the questions: You pretty much had the answers before you asked. I know in multiple places, the ramp has been closed due to lightning, only to have PL's (AW & BW both) demand that workers go back outside to continue to work flights. This is in direct conflict with published guidelines.

As for GSE, in many places, it's not maintained to the standard it should be. Pre-emptive checks are skipped, pieces that are "tagged out" for critical issues mysteriously reappear w/o repair-or just have the tag ripped off- and more.

The idea of an (unfortunately named) "Smackdown" is good I guess, but the way the company has approached it is superficial at best. I've already listed what I feel Dept. 120 needs to make wholesale improvements- the flyer above pretty much captures the rest. The fact that it's become an annual event just shows it's not being done right...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Sure it's the same corporation, but the dynamics are wildly different from even 5 short years ago.

As for the questions: You pretty much had the answers before you asked. I know in multiple places, the ramp has been closed due to lightning, only to have PL's (AW & BW both) demand that workers go back outside to continue to work flights. This is in direct conflict with published guidelines.

As for GSE, in many places, it's not maintained to the standard it should be. Pre-emptive checks are skipped, pieces that are "tagged out" for critical issues mysteriously reappear w/o repair-or just have the tag ripped off- and more.

The idea of an (unfortunately named) "Smackdown" is good I guess, but the way the company has approached it is superficial at best. I've already listed what I feel Dept. 120 needs to make wholesale improvements- the flyer above pretty much captures the rest. The fact that it's become an annual event just shows it's not being done right...

then my suggestion, honestly, is to call OSHA.

If a ramp has been closed and DL mgmt. has acknowledged it and yet sends workers out anyway, then that is a serious issue.

We have laws - due process - in the US and in other countries.

Unions don't enforce the laws. The government does.

I believe in worker safety. I want DL employees safe.

If DL needs to leave a plane sitting unattended for 30 minutes or an hour until a storm passes, that is what has to be done.

MSP isn't exactly known for violent, frequent thunderstorms.

Fix the problem with someone that can solve it.

If the company asks for seat belts, use them. And then don't give them any room to smack anything.

if the company violates its own policies and genuinely endangers worker safety, call OSHA, not a union.

Why would it be an annual event? and if it is, apparently employees have survived it for XXX years? 80-85 maybe? Which means DL isn't really so different after all.

BTW, we had safety campaigns in both ACS and the GO and Res. Do you know how many OJIs are filed by Res employees?

As always, YOUR perspective is genuinely appreciated.

 

[Kev3188]

 

then my suggestion, honestly, is to call OSHA.

Excellent idea...after the fact.

Unions don't enforce the laws.

Representation provides a counterbalance for when a company disregards either the law or it's own policies. DL ramp employees do not have that in their workplace currently.

MSP isn't exactly known for violent, frequent thunderstorms.

Maybe not compared to, say, TPA, but they certainly occur regularly. Same with DTW, for that matter...

Fix the problem with someone that can solve it.

What do you think the labor activists at DL are working towards?

if the company violates its own policies and genuinely endangers worker safety, call OSHA, not a union.

Better yet, do both.

Why would it be an annual event? and if it is, apparently employees have survived it for XXX years?

It means wholesale improvement has not happened...

 

[WorldTraveler]

escalate internally, Kevin, and if it doesn't work or there is pushback, escalate externally - OSHA, the media, whoever.

Unions can't fix safety issues.

They don't have the power to enforce laws. The government does.

I want you and your DL colleagues safe.

WN appears to be paying the price for failing to acknowledge the concerns of even a mgmt. employee. that is the way the system should work.

Aviation safety is absolutely crucial and you and your colleagues should accept nothing less than 100% compliance.

But the company is in the same position to expect the same thing from you and your colleagues - seat belts, guardrails... the whole nine yards

I will ALWAYS support you in seeking a safe and healthy working environment. Just turn to where it can be obtained.

 

[metopower]

Kev... No excuses for safety violations. OSHA...Great suggestion and quicker too. Just my bet but are the middle management just above you hold overs from NW? After my merger the greatest offenders were my own side trying to gain favor with the new DL people. If the safety policies are enforced differently north over south it would be readily apparent. OSHA won't play that game ... Rules are rules and a DL will not tolerate a black eye on this. If WT knows the ways to get their attention use it . You goal of a union is one thing but safety trumps all. I would drop a dime and maybe that supervisor would be shown the door.