Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[700UW]

Seven mainline flights a week including AA metal worked.

 

[WeAAsles]

spare us.

how you can make so much sense one minute and resort to histrionics the next is beyond comprehension.

DL doesn't have slaves. They have employees who willingly do the work they are PAID to do.

you make a horrible disgrace of those who really were slaves. you should be ashamed for insulting them.

they willingly work for what DL pays them.

if DL wants to eliminate them and be forced instead to eliminate stations which is exactly what THE WORTHLESS UNION and the IAM did, then why do you think DL would not do the very same thing?

DL won't do anything any differently than what AA and UA have done which is to eliminate cities and outsource instead of being able to use inhouse RR personnel

Many in the RR pool probably only continue to work there and I'm sure the turnover is tremendous, on the chance that they can advance to the top tiers? They're probably enticed to continue because they are well aware of what others above them make and that carrot on a stick compels them forward. The problem is from what I'm hearing is that the stick is getting longer.

With a Union and a contract an agreement can be made that the stick will only remain so long and after the mule has tended enough field he will be given that carrot to enjoy. As it is at least from what I've heard Delta management wants to grow that RR system into something by PERCENTAGES to be much larger in the future?

To be fair. Between 95 and 01 here at AA in Fleet we also had what I defined as a NO HOPE contract for new hires called Jr Fleet SVC Clerk. The Top Out was $10.00 after 10 years. Miserable piece of language voted in because the majority didn't care about the future workers. The Company suffered from it though and couldn't wait to get rid of it due to the turnover again. So it was gone in 01 and those that stuck it out finally began to move up.

Does Delta have any type of assurances in writing that anyone in the RR system can eventually make there way out of the muck and mire of it?

Oh and spare me your outrage WT. Economic slavery to me is not much different then the days of old. They just don't physically whip people anymore.

 

[Kev3188]

 

Never heard anyone say they want RR to go away. All I have heard is put hard staffing numbers in place to prevent Delta from going to RR heavy. (and give people a real chance of making full time without having to move to LAX or JFK.)

^This^

And a little transparency in the transfer process would go a long way (and cost almost nothing to implement).
 

Has anyone at the IAM drive said that? 
 
Kev is that even really being talked about?

No & no.

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, we should not. unless you want to prove MY POINT.

because if we did we would see that the IAM worked for very low wages in order secure scope.

it took the merger in order to bring US employees up even close to pay levels that DL employees have enjoyed.

every airline has a labor budget for each work group. They can and do move pieces of the cost around - sometimes negotiated but sometimes decided with input from employees but final decisions by the company.

it should be obvious to you and anyone that wants to realize it that WN has determined its ramp costs are too high relative to AA/US, DL, and UA - and thus their negotiations are stalled. the only group that WN has settled with of any size got 1.5% raises - far below what the legacies are giving. WN gets a big part of its overall labor cost advantage because of high productivity. those two person ramp crews are exactly part of the labor cost solution WN has enjoyed.

DL is simply not going to raise its labor costs by eliminating work rules any more than WN is going to agree to AA and UA ramp rules while paying WN salaries.

DL is simply not going to eliminate the work rule advantage it has compared to AA and UA any more than WN has not.

if you can't see that and your peers decide they want to have a union, it absolutely will come with lower overall compensation per employee. DL is not going to watch overall labor costs increase

no, weAAles. the term slave is a very loaded term and for very good reasons.

It has far less to do with economics than it does to freedom.

we can have a discussion. save the term slave for appropriate uses and respect those who actually lived it.

 

[700UW]

They didnt work for low wages to achieve the current scope.
 
And it didnt take the merger to achieve a new CBA like the IAM accomplished in Section 6 Negotiations.
 
Fleet got over a 9.53% raise on DOS.
 
Top out currently is $23.00.
 
http://www.iam141.org/docs/US-TA-WageScale.pdf

 

[Kev3188]

We have no shortage of low wages here at DL...
 
No scope, either...

 

[WeAAsles]

They didnt work for low wages to achieve the current scope.
 
And it didnt take the merger to achieve a new CBA like the IAM accomplished in Section 6 Negotiations.
 
Fleet got over a 9.53% raise on DOS.
 
Top out currently is $23.00.
 
http://www.iam141.org/docs/US-TA-WageScale.pdf

And in September by my calculations the Industry Averaging will bring us to $24.55 plus I hit my 20th year this May so with longevity I will be at a BASE of $24.85 not counting my benefits and 5.5% 401k match.

Per hour yes that is less than those 35% at Delta who are FT at the top rate but in my group we are ALL on the same pay scale progression. Every station in the merged AA system. No RR, Jr, Tier 1 2 or 3 cities or any other low wage name you want to call it.

When we eventually vote on a JCBA we'll once again do the math to see how it all stacks up in comparison?

 

[topDawg]

no, we should not. unless you want to prove MY POINT.

because if we did we would see that the IAM worked for very low wages in order secure scope.

it took the merger in order to bring US employees up even close to pay levels that DL employees have enjoyed.

every airline has a labor budget for each work group. They can and do move pieces of the cost around - sometimes negotiated but sometimes decided with input from employees but final decisions by the company.

it should be obvious to you and anyone that wants to realize it that WN has determined its ramp costs are too high relative to AA/US, DL, and UA - and thus their negotiations are stalled. the only group that WN has settled with of any size got 1.5% raises - far below what the legacies are giving. WN gets a big part of its overall labor cost advantage because of high productivity. those two person ramp crews are exactly part of the labor cost solution WN has enjoyed.

DL is simply not going to raise its labor costs by eliminating work rules any more than WN is going to agree to AA and UA ramp rules while paying WN salaries.

DL is simply not going to eliminate the work rule advantage it has compared to AA and UA any more than WN has not.

if you can't see that and your peers decide they want to have a union, it absolutely will come with lower overall compensation per employee. DL is not going to watch overall labor costs increase

no, weAAles. the term slave is a very loaded term and for very good reasons.

It has far less to do with economics than it does to freedom.

we can have a discussion. save the term slave for appropriate uses and respect those who actually lived it.

I mean we will ignore history and laws so you can be right I guess.
 
I knew Delta was good but to be able to tell the NMB to piss off and ignore the RLA is one hell of a deal.
 
 
Oh waiting for that work rules comparison........ 

 

[WeAAsles]

We have no shortage of low wages here at DL...
 
No scope, either...

To us which is something that WT can't understand, going to work with no contract is like going to work with no pants. Without pants you never know who may tell you to bend over someday?

 

[700UW]

DL ACS have three pay scales, and some receive a 3% raise while others receive 4% and the RRs get one raise with no benefits.

 

[700UW]

 

[WeAAsles]

DL ACS have three pay scales, and some receive a 3% raise while others receive 4% and the RRs get one raise with no benefits.

Interesting. I'm curious about some things that I'm sure Kev can answer for me. WT spouts off on what Delta employees receive today but I'd love to get a little history lesson for comparisons?

In 2003 AA did concessions and I went down to $20.00 per hour base rate. We went up to $21.00 and essentially sat there till 2012. In the interim I was still receiving Pension accumulations, now frozen that I will benefit from when I retire.

Delta and Northwest went into BK in 2005. 2 years later. Pensions were dumped on the PBGC and I think there will be cuts from what the original payouts should have been upon retirement? Anyway getting back to BASE rates, how much did Fleet TOP SCALE people go down to and how long did that last?

On the Profit Sharing after Delta merged and put in the PS formula how much did it pay out again for those who were still on that top tier pay scale? When did it start paying out and was it a windfall to make up for the base wage losses?

Essentially since I already know that on BASE rates for a pretty long time we here at AA (excluding SWA) were the top payed in the industry what would be my overall compensation for the last decade against my Delta peers?

Oh and because we didn't hire for so long basically every FSC topped out at AA during those years.

I guess we could compare benefit costs at a later date. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

To us which is something that WT can't understand, going to work with no contract is like going to work with no pants. Without pants you never know who may tell you to bend over someday?

and yet despite your "pants" the TWU managed to let the company slip something in to cut multiple stations - while DL even with AA/US combined has its people in more locations.

AND a 15-16% profit sharing means that AA's claim of 7% above DL SCALE rates leaves AA employees coming up short - AKA exposed to the elements.

 

[WeAAsles]

and yet despite your "pants" the TWU managed to let the company slip something in to cut multiple stations - while DL even with AA/US combined has its people in more locations.

Over and over and over and over and over and over, who cares how many stations Delta has if people are only making $10.00 per hour in them with no benefits. If I worked in one of those stations I really wouldn't care what the company logo on my uniform says. All I would care about is what I am being paid for wearing that logo.

Oh and I guess you mean again stations lost through a Bankruptcy court hammer right?


AND a 15-16% profit sharing means that AA's claim of 7% above DL SCALE rates leaves AA employees coming up short - AKA exposed to the elements.

So are ALL those workers making $10.00 per hour also going to get 15% of their earnings? Woo hoo alrighty, glory glory hallelujah. They can now afford to buy that cheap 19 inch on sale Walmart TV I guess.

 

[topDawg]

and yet despite your "pants" the TWU managed to let the company slip something in to cut multiple stations - while DL even with AA/US combined has its people in more locations.

AND a 15-16% profit sharing means that AA's claim of 7% above DL SCALE rates leaves AA employees coming up short - AKA exposed to the elements.

How many stations does AA have in-house below wing? 
 
 
FA work rules comparison?