Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[700UW]

 

[WorldTraveler]

It's not an "argument." It's a statement based both on personal experience and that of coworkers, as well as knowing some people in the business.

I presume you are referring to loan applications.

if so, what lenders and what type of loan are you saying that they will allow you to lend based on your future earnings based on a CBA? and while it might be technical, how close to the lending limit were you (they) with their current salary (ie how much of future earnings were they willing to consider if they considered any?)

I'm not saying you are wrong and I am not arguing but simply asking for more information.

I have friends in banking and loan processing but would rather hear from you.

 

[topDawg]

equating DL's outsourcing of business services to the necessity to the justification for a union is what is flawed.

DL is not and cannot be an expert in every aspect of running a business. People and companies "outsource" their tax preparation all of the time. I know of no one, including accountants, who do their own taxes completely by themselves. They use software at the minimum and most often a company itself.

to say that DL's FAs or ground workers should be entitled to a union because DL believes that other companies have the expertise to manage HR related needs is flawed to the core.

Delta should also practice what they preach...... 
 

At US you arent forced to deal with a third party for FMLA, Labor Relations nor Human Resources.

which is something that is complete horse crap that Delta sends out. 
 
After BK Delta brought a lot of this in-house.....than post merger shipped it out again. (but no one ever talks about that) 
 

it is nice to throw the anti-worker phrase out there.

since I am also a worker and have been doing it longer than you are, I would have to be against myself - and I am not.

You yourself have repeatedly said that everything in a CBA has a price.

as much as you want to throw complaints about a purser having to use a bunk in a different position of the crew rest facility and make it sound like a big deal, the ENTIRE crew rest facility has a price and will be considered in negotiations.

no one said that DL FAs can't improve their lot in life and their working conditions.

do you realize that DL only put lie flat crew rest facilities on its 767s - the largest type in DL's int'l fleet - in the last 7 years?

do you realize that AA and UA don't have them at all on 767s, IIRC?

do you also realize that the percentage of AA's fleet that has off passenger deck crew rest facilities is pretty small?

all of that factors into the value of the CBA when negotiations are opened.

DL added those crew rest facilities at no cost to DL FAs.

if they are costed out as part of a CBA, DL FAs will quickly find out how good they actually had it and how much they could lose just because a very few people laid too tight of a claim to a specific bunk on an aircraft.

Once again, Delta isn't doing this for the FAs. They are doing it for the revenue created by getting crew rests out of seats. Just like all the other things you threaten, Delta isn't taking out those crew rests, with or without a union 

 

[WorldTraveler]

I am well aware of the value of extra passenger seats on the passenger deck.

but DL could easily accomplish what it needs to increase space without carrying around hundreds of pounds of weight in the cargo bin, eliminate the ability to carry live animals on the entire 767 int'l fleet, and providing lie flat accommodations.

DL provided the below cabin crew rest accommodations several years across the entire fleet precisely at the point when FAs were threatening unionization.

look up the timeline.

DL FAs have better crew rest accommodation than DL pilots. You do realize that DL pilots on 767 flights that are less than 12 hours get a business class seat while FAs get a below cabin lie flat seat, don't you?

and again, why don't you or others complain that DL doesn't operate its own worldwide VOIP phone network?
DL outsources HR functions for the same reason they and every other major company has a health insurance administrator; because the expertise required to do HR functions right is complex and full of legal requirements for which errors can be very costly to a company.

besides, DL does more insourcing - not just in maintenance but the refinery and ground handling - than probably any airline in the US.

the equation has to look at both sides - outsourcing and insourcing.

 

[topDawg]

I am well aware of the value of extra passenger seats on the passenger deck.

but DL could easily accomplish what it needs to increase space without carrying around hundreds of pounds of weight in the cargo bin, eliminate the ability to carry live animals on the entire 767 int'l fleet, and providing lie flat accommodations.

DL provided the below cabin crew rest accommodations several years across the entire fleet precisely at the point when FAs were threatening unionization.

look up the timeline.

I told you why they did it. Call it a labor thing if you want, but the crew rests aren't getting pulled if the IAM gets voted in. Just like A-days.

make up anything you want to go around that, but its pretty simple.
 

DL FAs have better crew rest accommodation than DL pilots. You do realize that DL pilots on 767 flights that are less than 12 hours get a business class seat while FAs get a below cabin lie flat seat, don't you?

you of all people should know that all of Delta's 767s (international) have lie-flat J seats. So that part doesn't matter. Having said that its simple the pilots use a J seat on the 76L/76Z/764 and the FAs don't.
numbers and space.

and again, why don't you or others complain that DL doesn't operate its own worldwide VOIP phone network?
DL outsources HR functions for the same reason they and every other major company has a health insurance administrator; because the expertise required to do HR functions right is complex and full of legal requirements for which errors can be very costly to a company.

besides, DL does more insourcing - not just in maintenance but the refinery and ground handling - than probably any airline in the US.

the equation has to look at both sides - outsourcing and insourcing.

Delta did its HR in house.....so now you are saying Delta didn't have qualified employees to do the job?

 

[southwind]

Only you would find a celebration in a handful of people arguing against their own self-interests...

  

Who says voting in a union is in their own best interest besides the union itself and pro union peeps, like yourself.....that's why there's a voting process.... Because, believe it or not, not everyone agrees with you and 700!

"PHOTOSHOP!"

 

[southwind]

I told you why they did it. Call it a labor thing if you want, but the crew rests aren't getting pulled if the IAM gets voted in.

Really? You and the IAM can guarantee the above?

 

[WorldTraveler]

dawg,
pilots complain ALOT about having a crew rest seat in the passenger cabin because even as quiet as the FAs try to be, FAs are doing a meal service at the time the pilots are resting.

and a big part of the reason why the pilots don't use the crew rest cabin on other aircraft besides the 333 is because access is far from the cockpit which pilots won't accept as safe'(and I don't disagree with them) and it doesn't make economic sense to have two facilities and because of weight and balance issues putting it at the front of a 767 doesn't work.

and whether DL values a below deck crew rest facility high enough based solely on revenue numbers, it does a value to the FAs in terms of quality of work.

DL can make that calculation because they have access to all of the data regarding passenger loads and yields in all cabins, cargo loads, and how competitors value it.
a union doesn't and won't ever have that data.

Even if DL made the decision because it is revenue based, they do not have to share their numbers with a union and can value below deck crew rest on more aircraft however they want (which might mean showing that DL is offering a benefit to FAs) and then use that value in negotiations.

I can absolutely assure you that any advantage that DL FAs have relative to their peers will be given a value and that value will be considered in negotiations.

DL is simply not going to say that they made the decision regarding crew rest facilities solely on the basis of what is good for DL without it having an effect on FA costs and benefits.

and, further, the point still remains that DL could operate a smaller crew rest facility that is off of the main deck and have comparable accommodations to what AA and UA offer.

as for DL and HR, you do realize that DL was faced with having to do major IT upgrades to its HR systems about the time that they also decided to outsource some of those HR functions?

 

[700UW]

 

[700UW]

 

[metopower]

Must be going for the jealousy vote?

 

[metopower]

Hope those 12000 FA's don't run out of money before the vote. Wait I mean the iam.

 

[Airlinelifer]

Why do you care Meto?

 

[metopower]

Why do you care Meto?

Because unlike that guy I work here

 

[700UW]

So its ok for you to be unionized but you are against the FAs unionizing?
 
Last time I checked you arent an FA and dont get a vote, only active DL FAs will.