So you had no problem with the GOP when they allowed AA to underfund your pension while awarding bonuses to the executives with the money that should have gone into the pension? Then years later AA freezes your pension because it's underfunded? How about when Reagan allowed PanAm to raid the pension fund for executive bonuses and then liquidating leaving the employees without a pension? How about Eastern Airlines run into the ground by that (Liberal ?) Frank Borman and then a leveraged buyout (another GOP invention) to that other liberal Frank Lornenzo? We all know how that worked out. Yeah the liberals are killing us, that other liberal Carl Icahn did the same thing to TWA. We are reaping the benefits of the Reagan trickle down theory and the Reagan/Bush inspired corporate raiders. To every yin there is a yang. The liberals are not your only problem. The corporate raider loving, borrow and spend GOP is directly responsible for the shape of the airline industry (and all other industry) today. You can whine about Obamacare all you want, but the status quo is not working and there needs to be some kind of reform. The GOP refuses to be involved in anything that would actually help the middle income Americans. They believe in corporate welfare for Exxon Mobil but don't want to ensure a young working American is not gouged for health insurance. They give our tax money to companies like J.P, Morgan and the banking industry so they can give themselves bonuses and then deny loans to hard working Americans after their corruption led to their problems and the collapse of the stock market and U.S. economy. They fire the Air Traffic Controllers when they dare ask for a raise and better benefits, while they vote themselves pay raises year after year. They scream about fiscal responsibility and shut down the government of the United States, then add $2.9 billion to the new higher budget for bridges in the Senate Minority Leader (GOP) home state of Kentucky. They are calling it the Kentucky Kickback. These Republicans have declared war on ALL unions no matter what industry they are involved in. To vote for them and champion their causes that hurt you and the very people who are your union brothers is simply ludicrous. Yes the liberals love to spend money, but the GOP does too and they choose to borrow money from China and Japan instead of raising taxes on people like Warren Buffett. Instead they raise taxes on people like you and me, then stab us in the back by their nonstop attack on Social Security and Medicare. They call them entitlements. I and many others here will agree there is a problem with too much liberalism as we can see in California, but you must look at places like Oklahoma, Mississippi, and Louisiana to see what happens when the GOP gets carte blanche control. The bar has tipped and the laws in the U.S. are slanted more towards the richest Americans and further away from the middle class who pay all the taxes and do all the work. Our jobs are being sent overseas by corporations who reward their executives with obscene bonuses while destroying middle class families. These are the heroes of the GOP. You must love guys like Carty and Arpey and if you do then you adore Horton. You have the right to believe what you want and I will never tell you that you don't. But to believe as you do and be a member of a labor union is counter productive. In Oklahoma we have the Right to Work, and now we have Workman's Comp. Reform and we have a plethora of "Conservative" politicians who continue to undermine any kind of progressive ideas. Our Governor has said publicly that we don't need Obamacare. She said that if she can get people to quit smoking we won't need any healthcare at all. These are the kind of imbeciles who you claim are the answer. I must disagree. For the record I am against gun control, against abortion and believe in a balanced budget. I am against borrowing money to pay for government and am also against any kind of corporate welfare. That makes me a conservative. I register as an Independent because I cannot align myself with the likes of Reagan, W. Bush, Jim Inoffe, or any of the complete morons like Rick Santorum or Ted Cruz. Neither can I align with Obama or his like. I thought Clinton was a great president. The economy was booming and we actually had a realistic shot at a comfortable retirement. The biggest thing he did that I had a problem with is that since he was the leader of the free world he didn't have to settle for fat chicks.La Li Lu Le Lo said:
Health Care
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This article will explain a lot about why we are in the position we are in.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/looting-the-pension-funds-20130926
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/looting-the-pension-funds-20130926
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Although there are some things in this article that I agree with, "Rolling Stone" really hasn't been noted for it's impartiality! Just as Fox has it's agenda, Rolling Stone, a California rap sheet, has it's own! Both can be perceived as squad in opposite directions!
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MCI transplant
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No, that one is in the ladies room!
La Li Lu Le Lo
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[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AAhttp://www.airlineforums.com/user/18285-oldguyaa/[/SIZE] So you had no problem with the GOP when they allowed AA to underfund your pension while awarding bonuses to the executives with the money that should have gone into the pension? Then years later AA freezes your pension because it's underfunded? How about when Reagan allowed PanAm to raid the pension fund for executive bonuses and then liquidating leaving the employees without a pension? How about Eastern Airlines run into the ground by that (Liberal ?) Frank Borman and then a leveraged buyout (another GOP invention) to that other liberal Frank Lornenzo? We all know how that worked out. Yeah the liberals are killing us, that other liberal Carl Icahn did the same thing to TWA.
I have not seen one American Airlines retiree miss one pension check. They did that as a cost cutting measure, not because it was underfunded. I do not necessarily agree with that. In my opinion AA should have grandfathered current employees into the pension plan and only offered 401K to new hires. The fact that AA has an “older” work force would have made this a very viable option. AA saw an opportunity in bankruptcy and they took it. It was no accident they secured those Boeing and Airbus aircraft BEFORE bankruptcy.
You claim Ronald Reagan allowed PanAm to raid the pension fund. Prove it. I cannot find one reference to this. It may surprise you that Ronald Reagan was a member of and had led a UNION strike. Reagan did not have an issue with collective bargaining. What he had an issue with was an illegal strike by PATCO. PATCO was a government UNION. Reagan did nothing more than enforce preexisting laws.
Leveraged buyouts are not inherently negative to the worker. There are companies that were acquired this way decades ago that are still in business.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] We are reaping the benefits of the Reagan trickle down theory and the Reagan/Bush inspired corporate raiders. To every yin there is a yang. The liberals are not your only problem. The corporate raider loving, borrow and spend GOP is directly responsible for the shape of the airline industry (and all other industry) today.
Borrow and spend GOP? I think you have that backwards. The Obama administration has borrowed more money and spent more money than any other administration in history COMBINED. I already stated that in an earlier post.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] You can whine about Obamacare all you want, but the status quo is not working and there needs to be some kind of reform. The GOP refuses to be involved in anything that would actually help the middle income Americans. They believe in corporate welfare for Exxon Mobil but don't want to ensure a young working American is not gouged for health insurance. They give our tax money to companies like J.P, Morgan and the banking industry so they can give themselves bonuses and then deny loans to hard working Americans after their corruption led to their problems and the collapse of the stock market and U.S. economy.
Cutting “entitlements” and lowering taxes would most definitely help middle class Americans. Democrats raping middle class wallets every payday to pay for “entitlement” abuse does not. Do not tell me about Americans getting gouged for health insurance when the Democrats support an illegal population that uses the emergency room for their free healthcare at the citizens’ expense.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] They fire the Air Traffic Controllers when they dare ask for a raise and better benefits, while they vote themselves pay raises year after year. They scream about fiscal responsibility and shut down the government of the United States, then add $2.9 billion to the new higher budget for bridges in the Senate Minority Leader (GOP) home state of Kentucky. They are calling it the Kentucky Kickback.
They did not fire the Air Traffic Controllers because they asked for a raise. They fired them because they willfully broke the law.
Bridges? Earlier it was stated Republicans did not support infrastructure. Now you are saying they have asked for 2.9 billion for bridge repair. Which is it? I think having safe bridges to drive on is a good use of tax money don’t you? You’re an airline mechanic; you should be all about safety.
It is very obvious to me you have very little understanding of the subprime mortgage crises or economics in general. The reason the economy crashed is because Democrats were forcing banks to grant housing loans to people that had no realistic ability to pay the loan back. This eventually caused a real estate crash. I am not going to go into all of this here because it is legal speak, drawn out, and boring. If you want to know what really caused the economy to crash look up credit default swaps.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_default_swap)
Democrats wanted “Everyone to have the American Dream of owning a home” and forced ludicrous underwriting standards onto banks. Thank the Clinton era for that one.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Subprime_Mortgage_Offer.jpeg
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] These Republicans have declared war on ALL unions no matter what industry they are involved in. To vote for them and champion their causes that hurt you and the very people who are your union brothers is simply ludicrous.
We already discussed this. I told you that UNIONS brought that on themselves when they started funding the Democratic Party. They are supposed to be defending your pay, benefits, and working conditions, not giving UNION dues to fund liberal agendas. Part of the reason that government UNIONS in blue states have bloated salaries is because if the employees make more they pay more in dues which goes right to the Democratic Party. It is a form of self-funding by the Democratic Party at the tax payers’ expense. So basically citizens have to pay more taxes to fund a bloated government because Democrats want more money. Your problem is you think UNIONS today are the same as yesteryear. They are not. They are political funding machines.
I am not against UNIONS. I just think they need to get back to their roots. I think we can both agree the TWU could care less about the membership. They do not mind telling you who to vote for though.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] Yes the liberals love to spend money, but the GOP does too and they choose to borrow money from China and Japan instead of raising taxes on people like Warren Buffett. Instead they raise taxes on people like you and me, then stab us in the back by their nonstop attack on Social Security and Medicare. They call them entitlements. I and many others here will agree there is a problem with too much liberalism as we can see in California, but you must look at places like Oklahoma, Mississippi, and Louisiana to see what happens when the GOP gets carte blanche control.
Do not tell me about the GOP spending money. The GOP is not the one calling for a rise in the debt ceiling every few months. The GOP is not the one that is asking for an unlimited debt ceiling.
I am glad you see the problem with out of control liberalism. We finally have some common ground. I would like you to specify what you are talking about as far as Oklahoma, Mississippi, and Louisiana.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] The bar has tipped and the laws in the U.S. are slanted more towards the richest Americans and further away from the middle class who pay all the taxes and do all the work.
So you say. Have you looked at the amount of people on disability lately? Since government put a cap on welfare they have opened up the disability trough. I would say the laws are slanted toward “entitlement” abuse.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] Our jobs are being sent overseas by corporations who reward their executives with obscene bonuses while destroying middle class families. These are the heroes of the GOP. You must love guys like Carty and Arpey and if you do then you adore Horton.
CEO’s do what the board of directors tell them to do. A CEO is nothing more than a salesman. They act as the public face of the company. They are not the end all and be all of company decisions.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] You have the right to believe what you want and I will never tell you that you don't. But to believe as you do and be a member of a labor union is counter productive.
All Liberals make that claim then they race bait you and compare you to a child beater. I mean that is what Thomas Paine did to me in an earlier post. Liberal Tactics 101. Supporting a UNION that stabs you in the back over and over while funding a political party with your dues is counter productive.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] In Oklahoma we have the Right to Work, and now we have Workman's Comp. Reform and we have a plethora of "Conservative" politicians who continue to undermine any kind of progressive ideas. Our Governor has said publicly that we don't need Obamacare.
If UNIONS did their job they would not have to fear Right to Work. What progressive idea have they undermined? Give me an example. I agree with the Governor. We do NOT need Obamacare. In fact I doubt most people in Oklahoma even WANT Obamacare outside of the “entitlement” crowd.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] She said that if she can get people to quit smoking we won't need any healthcare at all.
Prove it. Post something quoting her. I read her whole State of Address and ran an internet search and found NOTHING that backs up your claim. . I think like most Liberals you are just making things up because you have nothing.
Now let’s talk about Bloomberg’s soda ban. That is real.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] These are the kind of imbeciles who you claim are the answer. I must disagree. For the record I am against gun control, against abortion and believe in a balanced budget. I am against borrowing money to pay for government and am also against any kind of corporate welfare. That makes me a conservative.
If you value conservative ideals then why are you supporting the liberal Democratic Party? Is it because of TWU propaganda?
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] I register as an Independent because I cannot align myself with the likes of Reagan, W. Bush, Jim Inoffe, or any of the complete morons like Rick Santorum or Ted Cruz. Neither can I align with Obama or his like.
You claim you’re an independent. All I have seen you do is attack the Republicans and defend the liberal Democrats.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] I thought Clinton was a great president. The economy was booming and we actually had a realistic shot at a comfortable retirement. The biggest thing he did that I had a problem with is that since he was the leader of the free world he didn't have to settle for fat chicks.
I am glad you approve of your President embarrassing himself and our country through blatant infidelity. Apparently adultery is OK as long as it is with someone you approve of. Your all for civil rights unless the person in question is a “fat chick” then it is OK to criticize.
I have not seen one American Airlines retiree miss one pension check. They did that as a cost cutting measure, not because it was underfunded. I do not necessarily agree with that. In my opinion AA should have grandfathered current employees into the pension plan and only offered 401K to new hires. The fact that AA has an “older” work force would have made this a very viable option. AA saw an opportunity in bankruptcy and they took it. It was no accident they secured those Boeing and Airbus aircraft BEFORE bankruptcy.
You claim Ronald Reagan allowed PanAm to raid the pension fund. Prove it. I cannot find one reference to this. It may surprise you that Ronald Reagan was a member of and had led a UNION strike. Reagan did not have an issue with collective bargaining. What he had an issue with was an illegal strike by PATCO. PATCO was a government UNION. Reagan did nothing more than enforce preexisting laws.
Leveraged buyouts are not inherently negative to the worker. There are companies that were acquired this way decades ago that are still in business.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] We are reaping the benefits of the Reagan trickle down theory and the Reagan/Bush inspired corporate raiders. To every yin there is a yang. The liberals are not your only problem. The corporate raider loving, borrow and spend GOP is directly responsible for the shape of the airline industry (and all other industry) today.
Borrow and spend GOP? I think you have that backwards. The Obama administration has borrowed more money and spent more money than any other administration in history COMBINED. I already stated that in an earlier post.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] You can whine about Obamacare all you want, but the status quo is not working and there needs to be some kind of reform. The GOP refuses to be involved in anything that would actually help the middle income Americans. They believe in corporate welfare for Exxon Mobil but don't want to ensure a young working American is not gouged for health insurance. They give our tax money to companies like J.P, Morgan and the banking industry so they can give themselves bonuses and then deny loans to hard working Americans after their corruption led to their problems and the collapse of the stock market and U.S. economy.
Cutting “entitlements” and lowering taxes would most definitely help middle class Americans. Democrats raping middle class wallets every payday to pay for “entitlement” abuse does not. Do not tell me about Americans getting gouged for health insurance when the Democrats support an illegal population that uses the emergency room for their free healthcare at the citizens’ expense.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] They fire the Air Traffic Controllers when they dare ask for a raise and better benefits, while they vote themselves pay raises year after year. They scream about fiscal responsibility and shut down the government of the United States, then add $2.9 billion to the new higher budget for bridges in the Senate Minority Leader (GOP) home state of Kentucky. They are calling it the Kentucky Kickback.
They did not fire the Air Traffic Controllers because they asked for a raise. They fired them because they willfully broke the law.
Bridges? Earlier it was stated Republicans did not support infrastructure. Now you are saying they have asked for 2.9 billion for bridge repair. Which is it? I think having safe bridges to drive on is a good use of tax money don’t you? You’re an airline mechanic; you should be all about safety.
It is very obvious to me you have very little understanding of the subprime mortgage crises or economics in general. The reason the economy crashed is because Democrats were forcing banks to grant housing loans to people that had no realistic ability to pay the loan back. This eventually caused a real estate crash. I am not going to go into all of this here because it is legal speak, drawn out, and boring. If you want to know what really caused the economy to crash look up credit default swaps.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_default_swap)
Democrats wanted “Everyone to have the American Dream of owning a home” and forced ludicrous underwriting standards onto banks. Thank the Clinton era for that one.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Subprime_Mortgage_Offer.jpeg
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] These Republicans have declared war on ALL unions no matter what industry they are involved in. To vote for them and champion their causes that hurt you and the very people who are your union brothers is simply ludicrous.
We already discussed this. I told you that UNIONS brought that on themselves when they started funding the Democratic Party. They are supposed to be defending your pay, benefits, and working conditions, not giving UNION dues to fund liberal agendas. Part of the reason that government UNIONS in blue states have bloated salaries is because if the employees make more they pay more in dues which goes right to the Democratic Party. It is a form of self-funding by the Democratic Party at the tax payers’ expense. So basically citizens have to pay more taxes to fund a bloated government because Democrats want more money. Your problem is you think UNIONS today are the same as yesteryear. They are not. They are political funding machines.
I am not against UNIONS. I just think they need to get back to their roots. I think we can both agree the TWU could care less about the membership. They do not mind telling you who to vote for though.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] Yes the liberals love to spend money, but the GOP does too and they choose to borrow money from China and Japan instead of raising taxes on people like Warren Buffett. Instead they raise taxes on people like you and me, then stab us in the back by their nonstop attack on Social Security and Medicare. They call them entitlements. I and many others here will agree there is a problem with too much liberalism as we can see in California, but you must look at places like Oklahoma, Mississippi, and Louisiana to see what happens when the GOP gets carte blanche control.
Do not tell me about the GOP spending money. The GOP is not the one calling for a rise in the debt ceiling every few months. The GOP is not the one that is asking for an unlimited debt ceiling.
I am glad you see the problem with out of control liberalism. We finally have some common ground. I would like you to specify what you are talking about as far as Oklahoma, Mississippi, and Louisiana.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] The bar has tipped and the laws in the U.S. are slanted more towards the richest Americans and further away from the middle class who pay all the taxes and do all the work.
So you say. Have you looked at the amount of people on disability lately? Since government put a cap on welfare they have opened up the disability trough. I would say the laws are slanted toward “entitlement” abuse.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] Our jobs are being sent overseas by corporations who reward their executives with obscene bonuses while destroying middle class families. These are the heroes of the GOP. You must love guys like Carty and Arpey and if you do then you adore Horton.
CEO’s do what the board of directors tell them to do. A CEO is nothing more than a salesman. They act as the public face of the company. They are not the end all and be all of company decisions.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] You have the right to believe what you want and I will never tell you that you don't. But to believe as you do and be a member of a labor union is counter productive.
All Liberals make that claim then they race bait you and compare you to a child beater. I mean that is what Thomas Paine did to me in an earlier post. Liberal Tactics 101. Supporting a UNION that stabs you in the back over and over while funding a political party with your dues is counter productive.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] In Oklahoma we have the Right to Work, and now we have Workman's Comp. Reform and we have a plethora of "Conservative" politicians who continue to undermine any kind of progressive ideas. Our Governor has said publicly that we don't need Obamacare.
If UNIONS did their job they would not have to fear Right to Work. What progressive idea have they undermined? Give me an example. I agree with the Governor. We do NOT need Obamacare. In fact I doubt most people in Oklahoma even WANT Obamacare outside of the “entitlement” crowd.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] She said that if she can get people to quit smoking we won't need any healthcare at all.
Prove it. Post something quoting her. I read her whole State of Address and ran an internet search and found NOTHING that backs up your claim. . I think like most Liberals you are just making things up because you have nothing.
Now let’s talk about Bloomberg’s soda ban. That is real.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] These are the kind of imbeciles who you claim are the answer. I must disagree. For the record I am against gun control, against abortion and believe in a balanced budget. I am against borrowing money to pay for government and am also against any kind of corporate welfare. That makes me a conservative.
If you value conservative ideals then why are you supporting the liberal Democratic Party? Is it because of TWU propaganda?
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] I register as an Independent because I cannot align myself with the likes of Reagan, W. Bush, Jim Inoffe, or any of the complete morons like Rick Santorum or Ted Cruz. Neither can I align with Obama or his like.
You claim you’re an independent. All I have seen you do is attack the Republicans and defend the liberal Democrats.
[SIZE=8.5pt]OldGuy@AA[/SIZE] I thought Clinton was a great president. The economy was booming and we actually had a realistic shot at a comfortable retirement. The biggest thing he did that I had a problem with is that since he was the leader of the free world he didn't have to settle for fat chicks.
I am glad you approve of your President embarrassing himself and our country through blatant infidelity. Apparently adultery is OK as long as it is with someone you approve of. Your all for civil rights unless the person in question is a “fat chick” then it is OK to criticize.
2ndGENAMT
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Yes it does say a lot about what happened to public pension funds and makes sense if true.. What the article failed to point out (probably intentionally) was that the Rhode Island general assembly was HEAVILY Democratic and the Treasurer Gina Raimondo was also a Democrat.OldGuy@AA said:
Later in the article it mentions ERISA which was passed by a Democratic congress and loop holes were used by Wall Street and spend thrift Politicians to loot the funds, but the article made a point to say it was signed into law by Gerald Ford which everyone knows was a Republican... Hmmm!
The media uses these techniques to blame a certain political party and spool up the masses for their favored party!
This is why I am against massive legislation like the ACA as it will be manipulated by the same people, and I am called narrow minded by certain forum posters for my opinions........
I will stand with who ever will shrink the size of Government and reign in borrowing and spending!
La Li Lu Le Lo
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Comment from http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/looting-the-pension-funds-20130926
End taxpayer funded pensions for government employees.
Taxpayers cannot guarantee our own retirement and should not be required to guarantee the retirement of public employees. These guaranteed retirement benefits, i.e., pensions, along with health care benefits for life, are bankrupting local, state, and federal governments.
If government employees want a big nest egg, then they need contribute to a 401k/403b, as do people in private industry.
As it now stands, public employees are able to retire at 50 or 55 and receive 90% of their salary plus health care for the rest of their lives. If, like the rest of us, public employees had to fund their own retirement, then they would not be retiring at 50 or even 60.
Furthermore, public employees often work overtime hours in the last few years of their employment to boost retirement pay. Unfortunately for the taxpayers, this increases the amount of the retirement pay/pension, thereby increasing the tax burden. Just like in private industry, working more hours the last few years of employment should not boost government employees' retirement pay.
Not only are benefits better, many government jobs pay better than private industry jobs (according to the Wall Street Journal 46% better), all complements of the taxpayer.
For example, the police and fire fighting forces, receive hundreds of thousands of applications per opening. It is now, statistically speaking, harder to be hired as a police officer or firefighter than it is to get into an Ivy League school. Obviously, there is no shortage of applicants, hence, why the need for tremendous incentives in pay and benefits? The fundamental law of supply and demand dictates much lower salaries and benefits. Money saved could be funneled towards benefits for soldiers, a group who have a more dangerous and stressful job without extravagant salaries or lavish retirements. To be sure, many jobs are stressful and dangerous, but that does not mean that the taxpayer should guarantee hefty salaries and colossal benefits.
Switching from pensions to 401k/403b retirement plans for all government employees (including Congress) will lower taxes, eliminate budget deficits, increase services, and eliminate future liabilities. Every employee both public and private should pay for his or her own retirement plan. No one should be required to guarantee anyone else’s retirement.
After all, why should taxpayers pay for their own retirement as well as the retirement of public employees?
Makes sense to me. Are you tired of supporting everyone else with your check?
End taxpayer funded pensions for government employees.
Taxpayers cannot guarantee our own retirement and should not be required to guarantee the retirement of public employees. These guaranteed retirement benefits, i.e., pensions, along with health care benefits for life, are bankrupting local, state, and federal governments.
If government employees want a big nest egg, then they need contribute to a 401k/403b, as do people in private industry.
As it now stands, public employees are able to retire at 50 or 55 and receive 90% of their salary plus health care for the rest of their lives. If, like the rest of us, public employees had to fund their own retirement, then they would not be retiring at 50 or even 60.
Furthermore, public employees often work overtime hours in the last few years of their employment to boost retirement pay. Unfortunately for the taxpayers, this increases the amount of the retirement pay/pension, thereby increasing the tax burden. Just like in private industry, working more hours the last few years of employment should not boost government employees' retirement pay.
Not only are benefits better, many government jobs pay better than private industry jobs (according to the Wall Street Journal 46% better), all complements of the taxpayer.
For example, the police and fire fighting forces, receive hundreds of thousands of applications per opening. It is now, statistically speaking, harder to be hired as a police officer or firefighter than it is to get into an Ivy League school. Obviously, there is no shortage of applicants, hence, why the need for tremendous incentives in pay and benefits? The fundamental law of supply and demand dictates much lower salaries and benefits. Money saved could be funneled towards benefits for soldiers, a group who have a more dangerous and stressful job without extravagant salaries or lavish retirements. To be sure, many jobs are stressful and dangerous, but that does not mean that the taxpayer should guarantee hefty salaries and colossal benefits.
Switching from pensions to 401k/403b retirement plans for all government employees (including Congress) will lower taxes, eliminate budget deficits, increase services, and eliminate future liabilities. Every employee both public and private should pay for his or her own retirement plan. No one should be required to guarantee anyone else’s retirement.
After all, why should taxpayers pay for their own retirement as well as the retirement of public employees?
Makes sense to me. Are you tired of supporting everyone else with your check?
Glenn Quagmire
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I guess you do not realize that the bulk of government retirement comes in the form of a 401k type system. It is called the TSP. The government matches up to 5%.
"Program Description
The Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS) provides Federal employees with retirement benefits. The retirement system is a three-tiered retirement plan. The three components are:
Social Security Benefits,
Basic Benefit Plan, and
Thrift Savings Plan Benefits.
The employee pays full Social Security taxes and a small contribution to the Basic Benefit Plan. The agency then adds an amount equal to 1 percent of the employee's basic pay each pay period into their Thrift Savings Plan (TSP) account. The employee is allowed to make tax-deferred contributions to the TSP and a portion is matched by the Government. If you leave Federal service before you meet the age and service requirements for an immediate retirement benefit, you may be eligible for deferred retirement benefits."
It is funny how people like you are ok with taking away another persons benefits.
Feel free to apply for one of those government jobs. Unless you are a veteran, you will not get past the application process, thanks to the Obama administration's veteran hiring initiative. (Yes, that military hating socialist/Marxist/fascist).
The vast majority of government jobs pay less than private sector if you have a college degree or graduate degree. Those with only high school educations earn more. That is because a large number of those are former military who have special training and skills from their service that translates to a government sector job.
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/01-30-FedPay.pdf
"Program Description
The Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS) provides Federal employees with retirement benefits. The retirement system is a three-tiered retirement plan. The three components are:
Social Security Benefits,
Basic Benefit Plan, and
Thrift Savings Plan Benefits.
The employee pays full Social Security taxes and a small contribution to the Basic Benefit Plan. The agency then adds an amount equal to 1 percent of the employee's basic pay each pay period into their Thrift Savings Plan (TSP) account. The employee is allowed to make tax-deferred contributions to the TSP and a portion is matched by the Government. If you leave Federal service before you meet the age and service requirements for an immediate retirement benefit, you may be eligible for deferred retirement benefits."
It is funny how people like you are ok with taking away another persons benefits.
Feel free to apply for one of those government jobs. Unless you are a veteran, you will not get past the application process, thanks to the Obama administration's veteran hiring initiative. (Yes, that military hating socialist/Marxist/fascist).
The vast majority of government jobs pay less than private sector if you have a college degree or graduate degree. Those with only high school educations earn more. That is because a large number of those are former military who have special training and skills from their service that translates to a government sector job.
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/01-30-FedPay.pdf
Glenn Quagmire
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Of course it makes sense to you.La Li Lu Le Lo said:
That is like saying you do not want to pay taxes to repair roads and bridges because you do not own a car.
Or maybe not paying taxes to support fire and EMS, because your house is not burning down.
Aren't you a laid off AA worker?
Have you used any government services since you were laid off?
But Hannitty, O'Rielly and Rush wouldn't know that because they aren't Veterans or Public Employees. Thanks. The fight should be for us to get that stuff back, not take it away from our peers. Amazing how he can cite that article and come away with that comment. I guess he missed this one;Glenn Quagmire said:
"In state after state, politicians are following the Rhode Island playbook, using scare tactics and lavishly funded PR campaigns to cast teachers, firefighters and cops – not bankers – as the budget-devouring boogeymen responsible for the mounting fiscal problems of America's states and cities."
And this:
There's $2.6 trillion in state pension money under management in America, and there are a lot of fingers in that pie. Any attempt to make a neat Aesop narrative about what's wrong with the system would inevitably be an oversimplification. But in this hugely contentious, often overheated national controversy – which at times has pitted private-sector workers who've mostly lost their benefits already against public-sector workers who are merely about to lose them – two key angles have gone largely unreported. Namely: who got us into this mess, and who's now being paid to get us out of it."
All I can say is he should change the name from La Li to Baaaa, Baaaa. He is doing exactly what his masters want. Blaming other victims. One week its Welfare Mothers, next its Public Workers, while he does nothing as the Company and the rich take away everything he worked for.
Was a good article though, for that I'm thankful.
La Li Lu Le Lo
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It does.Glenn Quagmire said:
Roads and bridges are part of infrastructure and are vital to local economies. Regardless of owning a vehicle people still use roads and bridges, be it rides from others or public transportation.
I voluntarily pay for EMS. It is included in my water bill by default. Not all people take part in the EMS program. As far as the Fire Department, fire is destructive and it spreads. An unchecked house fire could potentially wipe out half a city. If anything fire fighters do not make enough.
I am a laid of AA worker.
I have used one benefit. I have used grant money to pay for half of my school year. The other half I paid myself. I used that education and now have a very good job. I would say after taxes the government MADE money on that.
What I did NOT do was become welfare dependent or get on disability.
