AANOTOK
Veteran
- Oct 10, 2009
- 4,627
- 2,242
Wright Amendment
HERE COMES THE LAYOFFS
- Thread starter brownmech
- Start date
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,914
- 9,360
Impact of the Wright Amendment is probably a bit overstated... There's going to be some effect, but it won't be a doubling of operations overnight.
DAL as an aiport capped the total number passenger loading positions as part of the compromise with Fort Worth. Whether it is gates or hardstands, there's a hard limit of between 15 and 18 gates for WN to use. They're not getting any new gates as best I can tell, and are already running 128 flights a day, so I wouldn't expect it to grow too much beyond that.
The other challenge is that ~30% of the operation at DAL is to three cities -- AUS (10x), SAT (11x) & HOU (20x).
For WN to add service to places like ORD, ATL, and LAX, they're going to have to cut service in those and other markets. They'll need to balance out cutting service in those core markets to avoid losing some of the state contracts they hold, which are won primarily on the frequencies they offer.
DAL as an aiport capped the total number passenger loading positions as part of the compromise with Fort Worth. Whether it is gates or hardstands, there's a hard limit of between 15 and 18 gates for WN to use. They're not getting any new gates as best I can tell, and are already running 128 flights a day, so I wouldn't expect it to grow too much beyond that.
The other challenge is that ~30% of the operation at DAL is to three cities -- AUS (10x), SAT (11x) & HOU (20x).
For WN to add service to places like ORD, ATL, and LAX, they're going to have to cut service in those and other markets. They'll need to balance out cutting service in those core markets to avoid losing some of the state contracts they hold, which are won primarily on the frequencies they offer.
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
I am pretty sure Chuck Shaulk (sp?) was involved in those negotiations and made those comments many times.
He was right, and we are currently still working under a "Without Further Ratification Agreement" signed into place by none other than James C Little who was praised and appointed to higher level within the TWU for his " brilliant courage".
Shortly thereafter, AMFA cards rolled in and we filed for a representational dispute election.
The TWU, then used their Political Influence paid for from our paychecks to prohibit the vote by the membership, using TWA employees and Fueler Qualified Fleet Service clerks that the TWU claimed would someday get their Outsourced Fueling positions returned to them. None have returned fueling jobs as stated, and TWA employees were all shafted in exchange. In fact I think the final outcome will be that more fueling jobs will be outsourced not those that were negotiated away brought back.
Nothing short of corruption, lies, deceitful leadership, manipulation, and all happening after the Management Retention SERP program was disclosed and James C Little claimed the only way to have legitimate collective bargaining agreement is to have a complete revote. ROFLMAO, we still work under that inferior agreement to date, and the revote never happened, and there you have the rest of the story.
The TWU is made up of leaders that are very much like many members, always hoping someone else will negotiate a better deal so we can say "ME TOO", and then blaming someone or something else when that idea fails, all the while parading around with the AFL-CIO pretending they are protecting the middle calls from destruction. Pfftttt
I could think of nothing better than before I retire, AA and WN merge and with the help of SWA AMT's we throw the TWU to the curb in a landslide vote. that would make everything that happened since, easier to swallow. Now that is something worth praying for every night until I die.
Quite frankly I cannot imagine anything that would surprise me at this point, if you are saying that you have been made a unsecured creditor personally I sorry to hear that and hope it works out for you.
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
I am about to become one too over a CFM-56 Grievance Award that the TWU claims AA does not have to pay.
I wouldn't be surprised to see WN add a few flights from DAL to key cities outside the WA perimeter in 2014, but AA (and UA) have contended with something similar in Chicago for many years (WN's growing operation at MDW).
It may chip away at AA's domestic traffic, and push AA slightly closer to a model where most domestic flights exist primarily to feed the international flights, but it won't immediately put AA in a world of hurt.
One elephant in the room is the WN cost structure, which while still competitive, has been climbing. As Kelly told the employees, AA is finally going to dramatically reduce its costs, just like all the others did. With significantly lower costs, AA won't have a hard time making money at WN fares.
It may chip away at AA's domestic traffic, and push AA slightly closer to a model where most domestic flights exist primarily to feed the international flights, but it won't immediately put AA in a world of hurt.
One elephant in the room is the WN cost structure, which while still competitive, has been climbing. As Kelly told the employees, AA is finally going to dramatically reduce its costs, just like all the others did. With significantly lower costs, AA won't have a hard time making money at WN fares.
jimntx
Veteran
Oh, no. I'm a lowly flight attendant. Even if the pensions get dumped on the PBGC, I won't be hurt because the maximum pension they can pay is something like $4500/mo. No f/a on earth of any seniority qualifies for any monthly retirement stipend even approaching that amount. However, all of the unions are considered unsecured creditors, and the pilots who retired 01NOV to try and get out while the getting was good were informed that they would not receive their lump sum amounts (B Plan???), just the monthly stipend (A Plan, I think). The lump sum payouts have been added to the unsecured creditors list with the bankruptcy court. AA may or may not (probably not) be required to pay these amounts in the future.
AA767JET
Advanced
- Mar 7, 2009
- 225
- 18
Well folks looks like the end is near ....
Time to get all your ducks in order ...
View Postdfw gen, on 28 January 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:
no body likes the position we are in.but the writing was on the wall has been since 9/11
did you think when Northwest screwed their people it wouldn't come around?
did you think when united screwed their people it wouldn't come around?
dd you think when Delta screwed their people it wouldn't come around?
did you think when delta and northwest merged it wouldn't come around?
did you think when continental and united merged it wouldn't come around?
in 2003 did you think ignorance was bliss?
the ta is gone boys you can cry all you want. everything else is speculation.
come Wednesday when the company comes out with their "ask" and all is said and done
we all have one decision do we want to work for what they offer? its real simple cut and dry.
everyone stuck around for their own reasons most because it was a decent job and fun to do.
is its that bad push the retirement button and walk away. but to berate and give the company additional
cost cutting ideas just betrays you desperation.
DFW gen, Correct me if I am wrong or out of line here. If I recall, back in 03 when AA was going after their employees, I vegly recall reading postings that said something like, Don't fall for AA's retroic, they are getting conssesions now and will go after the pensions "AND" yet more cutrs later, including more lay-offs. I remember people saying, let them go into BK now (back in 03) otherwise they will "double dip" and threaten or go into BK and rip more pay, pensions and jobs from the mechanics group all over again. It may not have been this site, but I do recall reading it on one of these forums, and it may have been Dennises old forum, not sure. Anyone else remember these postings?? As I have stated before, I still say this was all planned back in 2003, yes even this BK now. Waiting it out (of course after they got the 03 conssesions) until all the other carriers got all their conssesions in place, studying them, and using their conssesions to now have a goal as far as numbers to reach with their newly plans to be the most cost efficient airline out there. AA , in mu opinion, will not remain a stand alone carrier. They have been studying the mergers of the airline industry as well. When this is all said and done, AA will be the largest airline out there, with the lowest labor cost out there. And once again making boo-koo bucks in profits again, and never restoring the pay to the employees, except of course for all the management folks. I wish you all the best of luck. Maybe this time your union will finally say enough is enough...
swamt i cant recall to be honest and didn't follow the boards as much. funny thing is that in 2003 i had an offer at Southwest for either phoenix or midway the kids were at an age i couldn't go.oh well poop happens. in 2003 after the concessions and yes i did vote for them regretfully. i made up my mind to get my act together, after 8 years you are never fully prepared but its not the disaster it could have been. my point in the post above is that you were a fool in the airline industry if you did not get your act together financially,spiritually and relationship wise.do i want aa to fold? no. would i like to get another 10-12 years in? yes. the bottom line do i think aa plan this? i would like to thing no, but there is noway to be sure. looking back and hind sight is 20-20 you could have seen this coming. if i was at southwest i would start thinking and looking for a long term plan.the letter the ceo put out about legacy carriers and costs would be the first sign. not that i wish it but hey dont stick your head id the sand. if aa folded tomorrow i would walk out with my head high, not whine like a little #### about would coulda,shoulda and woulda been and how no one listened to you blah,blah.blah you get the picture
no body likes the position we are in.but the writing was on the wall has been since 9/11
did you think when Northwest screwed their people it wouldn't come around?
did you think when united screwed their people it wouldn't come around?
dd you think when Delta screwed their people it wouldn't come around?
did you think when delta and northwest merged it wouldn't come around?
did you think when continental and united merged it wouldn't come around?
in 2003 did you think ignorance was bliss?
the ta is gone boys you can cry all you want. everything else is speculation.
come Wednesday when the company comes out with their "ask" and all is said and done
we all have one decision do we want to work for what they offer? its real simple cut and dry.
everyone stuck around for their own reasons most because it was a decent job and fun to do.
is its that bad push the retirement button and walk away. but to berate and give the company additional
cost cutting ideas just betrays you desperation.
DFW gen, Correct me if I am wrong or out of line here. If I recall, back in 03 when AA was going after their employees, I vegly recall reading postings that said something like, Don't fall for AA's retroic, they are getting conssesions now and will go after the pensions "AND" yet more cutrs later, including more lay-offs. I remember people saying, let them go into BK now (back in 03) otherwise they will "double dip" and threaten or go into BK and rip more pay, pensions and jobs from the mechanics group all over again. It may not have been this site, but I do recall reading it on one of these forums, and it may have been Dennises old forum, not sure. Anyone else remember these postings?? As I have stated before, I still say this was all planned back in 2003, yes even this BK now. Waiting it out (of course after they got the 03 conssesions) until all the other carriers got all their conssesions in place, studying them, and using their conssesions to now have a goal as far as numbers to reach with their newly plans to be the most cost efficient airline out there. AA , in mu opinion, will not remain a stand alone carrier. They have been studying the mergers of the airline industry as well. When this is all said and done, AA will be the largest airline out there, with the lowest labor cost out there. And once again making boo-koo bucks in profits again, and never restoring the pay to the employees, except of course for all the management folks. I wish you all the best of luck. Maybe this time your union will finally say enough is enough...
swamt i cant recall to be honest and didn't follow the boards as much. funny thing is that in 2003 i had an offer at Southwest for either phoenix or midway the kids were at an age i couldn't go.oh well poop happens. in 2003 after the concessions and yes i did vote for them regretfully. i made up my mind to get my act together, after 8 years you are never fully prepared but its not the disaster it could have been. my point in the post above is that you were a fool in the airline industry if you did not get your act together financially,spiritually and relationship wise.do i want aa to fold? no. would i like to get another 10-12 years in? yes. the bottom line do i think aa plan this? i would like to thing no, but there is noway to be sure. looking back and hind sight is 20-20 you could have seen this coming. if i was at southwest i would start thinking and looking for a long term plan.the letter the ceo put out about legacy carriers and costs would be the first sign. not that i wish it but hey dont stick your head id the sand. if aa folded tomorrow i would walk out with my head high, not whine like a little #### about would coulda,shoulda and woulda been and how no one listened to you blah,blah.blah you get the picture
texasreb
Senior
- Jul 26, 2008
- 378
- 171
It isn't over till the fat lady sings and if it happens it means some poor flight line guy will be bumped.
AA767JET
Advanced
- Mar 7, 2009
- 225
- 18
I hear ya bro ....
texasreb
Senior
- Jul 26, 2008
- 378
- 171
Keep dreaming. I would hope all of you so called union people would not let that happen.
AA767JET
Advanced
- Mar 7, 2009
- 225
- 18
Nothing surprise me anymore !!!
Similar threads
