I have had enough of the Teamsters!

UAmechfedup

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Teamsters allowing United to outsource 32 A320 aircraft. United signs contract to have 5 aircraft outsourced outside the US. United has already signed multi year contracts with Airborne MX of Ohio and AAR in Florida. The outsource will be a mixture of narrowbody and widebody aircraft. Typical IBT response is to file grievance and proceed to arbitration. This will only embolden United to outsource more of our work. They have done nothing to protect our work and contract. Enough is enough. Are AMTs responsive to a new organizing drive to replace IBT? How do UA techs feel about AMFA or ALTA as future representatives?
 

ThirdSeatHero

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Are AMTs responsive to a new organizing drive to replace IBT? How do UA techs feel about AMFA or ALTA as future representatives?

AMFA would probably have the best chance considering alot of mechanics still have the old UAL/AMFA agreement laying around/in their tool boxes. Where the current agreement, for the most part, has all encompassing vague generalities, the AMFA agreement had specific more detailed language which now looking back, most in UAL MX would agree was better, especially those at or formerly at the SFO point.

Once the ibt turned out to be what the membership was warned about, and most of their die-hard organizers got theirs and departed, if there was a drive, they'd be hard pressed to defend their record, I just don't think there's enough interest in the union (any union) to move this membership to action.
One caveat ... there are rumors, that the ibt will try to go after our pensions & medical again ... ie; Teamcare, and Western Conference ... if they tried again, that might wake a few people up ... we'll see.
 
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UAmechfedup

Newbie
Apr 29, 2022
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AMFA would probably have the best chance considering alot of mechanics still have the old UAL/AMFA agreement laying around/in their tool boxes. Where the current agreement, for the most part, has all encompassing vague generalities, the AMFA agreement had specific more detailed language which now looking back, most in UAL MX would agree was better, especially those at or formerly at the SFO point.

Once the ibt turned out to be what the membership was warned about, and most of their die-hard organizers got theirs and departed, if there was a drive, they'd be hard pressed to defend their record, I just don't think there's enough interest in the union (any union) to move this membership to action.
One caveat ... there are rumors, that the ibt will try to go after our pensions & medical again ... ie; Teamcare, and Western Conference ... if they tried again, that might wake a few people up ... we'll see.
Thank you for your insight and reply. I agree I feel AMFA is the way to go but not sure how the sub UA techs would feel about this. We are heading into negotiations and the new Director for the Airline Division has Clacy Girswold as a consultant and advisor. The same major players are still there mainly Bob Fisher, Chris Moore and Vinny Graziano. This is going to be disastrous. I'm thankful for any input and will be appreciated.
 

WeAAsles

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Oct 20, 2007
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AMFA would probably have the best chance considering alot of mechanics still have the old UAL/AMFA agreement laying around/in their tool boxes. Where the current agreement, for the most part, has all encompassing vague generalities, the AMFA agreement had specific more detailed language which now looking back, most in UAL MX would agree was better, especially those at or formerly at the SFO point.

Once the ibt turned out to be what the membership was warned about, and most of their die-hard organizers got theirs and departed, if there was a drive, they'd be hard pressed to defend their record, I just don't think there's enough interest in the union (any union) to move this membership to action.
One caveat ... there are rumors, that the ibt will try to go after our pensions & medical again ... ie; Teamcare, and Western Conference ... if they tried again, that might wake a few people up ... we'll see.

I guess Lee Seeham is looking for something else to spend the SWA Mechanics dues money on since the last AA raid is now on hold because of their fake filing. Every year AMFA shifts hundreds of thousands of dollars to the Seeham, Seeham, Meltz and Peterson Law firm for representational disputes against SWA and for other items.

AMFA is nothing more than a Ponzi scheme (Cash Cow) for that Law Firm.
 

swamt

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Oct 23, 2010
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Teamsters allowing United to outsource 32 A320 aircraft. United signs contract to have 5 aircraft outsourced outside the US. United has already signed multi year contracts with Airborne MX of Ohio and AAR in Florida. The outsource will be a mixture of narrowbody and widebody aircraft. Typical IBT response is to file grievance and proceed to arbitration. This will only embolden United to outsource more of our work. They have done nothing to protect our work and contract. Enough is enough. Are AMTs responsive to a new organizing drive to replace IBT? How do UA techs feel about AMFA or ALTA as future representatives?
"Typical IBT response is to file grievance and proceed to arbitration."

That was their favorite response here at SWA as well. One of the reasons we fired them so quickly. They are famous for allowing outsourcing out of the USA by a long shot. I still can't believe the UA membership fell for all their BS. But, they had to live with what they voted in even after being warned so much by a lot of us, and now they found out the hard way.
If they do decide to do another drive for AMFA you may wanna start now as there are currently 4 other airlines looking to bring AMFA in (going by memory here) AA, JetBlue, Spirit and Sun Country I do believe. I have also heard of rumors that Frontier may also be looking at AMFA for their representation as well.
Good luck my friend whatever you guys decide to do. I am in hopes the membership would get back with AMFA now that have experienced both. Keep us posted please sir/ma'am...
 

ThirdSeatHero

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I guess Lee Seeham is looking for something else to spend the SWA Mechanics dues money on since the last AA raid is now on hold because of their fake filing. Every year AMFA shifts hundreds of thousands of dollars to the Seeham, Seeham, Meltz and Peterson Law firm for representational disputes against SWA and for other items.

AMFA is nothing more than a Ponzi scheme (Cash Cow) for that Law Firm.

All unions use law firms - All unions pay "hundreds of thousands of dollars" for said law firms
 

WeAAsles

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All unions use law firms - All unions pay "hundreds of thousands of dollars" for said law firms

Not to the tune of over $600,000 to only one ☝️ Lawfirm in just one year alone when they represent less than 3000 people. And would you care to explain what “AA issues” are when AMFA represents no one at AA? Are they paying (siphoning members dues money) to the Lawfirm to try and raid another Union? (Yes I think they are)


A0382D7C-DA6D-4109-9CE4-BF7693EFCB68.jpeg
 

ThirdSeatHero

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Not to the tune of over $600,000 to only one ☝️ Lawfirm in just one year alone when they represent less than 3000 people. And would you care to explain what “AA issues” are when AMFA represents no one at AA? Are they paying (siphoning members dues money) to the Lawfirm to try and raid another Union? (Yes I think they are)


View attachment 16713

So what? You really want to compare LM reports? My ibt LOCAL here in SFO spent almost that much last year for just 17,000 members, that doesn't include ibt Joint Councils, the Airline Division, or the IBT as a whole.

As for AMFA using only 1 law firm, so what? If SSM&P are getting it done what need do they have spreading it around - simply having more lawyers on the books doesn't equate to better representation

As far as "AA issues" go they just finished an unsuccessful campaign at AA did they not? Filings and challenges cost legal dollars, as I'm sure you well know - theres nothing nefarious in that
 
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swamt

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Indeed TSH. When represented well, you gotta spend the $$$, you gotta file suits, you gotta fight, fight and fight for the members rights it's called "Properly Representing The Members Contracts"

These two yahoo's are trying to get a drive done at SWA with the TWU. They have already been sent home packing (when they tried to get on property in Dallas) as no members here at SWA will even remotely entertain the TWU to represent the mechanics here. So far every mechanic that received a mailer or brochure has shredded set fire or just trashed it. They are trying to do a drive from the outside in which speaks volumes because no one here wants even think about trying from the inside to bring in another industrial union here, period.
TSH, I have also been urging the Spirit Mechanics to get that card drive done for AMFA before the merger with Frontier (who is represented by the teamsters-so sad :( ) Just want them to be represented and not take the teamster representation due to the merger. Feel free to chime in on the regional airline thread where Spirit merger info is on how bad you guys have been screwed over by all the promises made by the teamsters, and how bad they just allow the company to outsource and outsource over seas at that. Also in hopes you guys reconsider bringing AMFA back into representing the Mechanics at UAL...
 
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WeAAsles

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So what? You really want to compare LM reports? My ibt LOCAL here in SFO spent almost that much last year for just 17,000 members, that doesn't include ibt Joint Councils, the Airline Division, or the IBT as a whole.

As for AMFA using only 1 law firm, so what? If SSM&P are getting it done what need do they have spreading it around - simply having more lawyers on the books doesn't equate to better representation

As far as "AA issues" go they just finished an unsuccessful campaign at AA did they not? Filings and challenges cost legal dollars, as I'm sure you well know - theres nothing nefarious in that

All they ever have against AA are unsuccessful filings. So it’s beyond obvious that it’s just a smoke screen to siphon money to that Lawfirm. They knew they didn’t have the cards and they put out the same phony rhetoric they do every time when they fail. “Oh they screwed us again. It was the IAM/TWU, it was AA, it was the NMB, it was ????” Every excuse under the Sun to justify extremely expensive failures. Money to the firm.

Your Local spent the same amount of money for 17,000 people. Ok let’s see that picture? Oh and 17,000 anyway is a lot more than 3000. And BTW there were more expenses to Lawyers in that LM2 than just the snapshot I posted. There was also another section to SSMP for another $100,000 making the grand total for just that firm alone (Again to represent a lousy 3000 people) at over $700,000.

And what successes does AMFA have? At SWA I think they only have work in like 5 or 6 Stations. At AA they’re in 26 Stations. How many Stations are the Rampers represented by TWU in at SWA? Guaranteed tons more. At AA they’re in 45 Stations. Give me a break on the AMFA success story. They have no successes. Again IMO they’re nothing but a money laundering outfit for the Seeham, Seeham, Meltz and Peterson Law Firm. Period!!!!
 

WeAAsles

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BTW ThirdSeatHero you go back a long way here. Your posts are always bashing the IBT and making a play to have an AMFA Drive. So personally I think you’re already part of that organization and just part of the back and forth see saw of SSMP going after established Unions as an excuse for that firm to again siphon money off of those who they claim to represent. Namely the blue collar AMFA dues payers.

AMFA has BLOCKED people who are calling them out all over their Social Media pages (Twitter, Facebook, Medium) but the information is going to get out there no matter how much they (maybe you too) try to restrict and censor it.

 

WeAAsles

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Indeed TSH. When represented well, you gotta spend the $$$, you gotta file suits, you gotta fight, fight and fight for the members rights it's called "Properly Representing The Members Contracts"

These two yahoo's are trying to get a drive done at SWA with the TWU. They have already been sent home packing (when they tried to get on property in Dallas) as no members here at SWA will even remotely entertain the TWU to represent the mechanics here. So far every mechanic that received a mailer or brochure has shredded set fire or just trashed it. They are trying to do a drive from the outside in which speaks volumes because no one here wants even think about trying from the inside to bring in another industrial union here, period.
TSH, I have also been urging the Spirit Mechanics to get that card drive done for AMFA before the merger with Frontier (who is represented by the teamsters-so sad :( ) Just want them to be represented and not take the teamster representation due to the merger. Feel free to chime in on the regional airline thread where Spirit merger info is on how bad you guys have been screwed over by all the promises made by the teamsters, and how bad they just allow the company to outsource and outsource over seas at that. Also in hopes you guys reconsider bringing AMFA back into representing the Mechanics at UAL...

The TWU is getting cards. Lots of them. Glad to know you got the mailers. There’s more coming.
 

ThirdSeatHero

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All they ever have against AA are unsuccessful filings. So it’s beyond obvious that it’s just a smoke screen to siphon money to that Lawfirm. They knew they didn’t have the cards and they put out the same phony rhetoric they do every time when they fail. “Oh they screwed us again. It was the IAM/TWU, it was AA, it was the NMB, it was ????” Every excuse under the Sun to justify extremely expensive failures. Money to the firm.

No whats obvious are the anti AMFA talking points haven't changed much.

I was part of 5 AMFA drives at UAL - 4 failed due to the same company/IAM type collusion seen at AA, until finally, after all the dead & retirees, all the last minute added work groups, we finally won on the 5th try and replaced the IAM.

We were successful, and if the membership at AA want change and are persistant in their efforts, they will get that change.

Your Local spent the same amount of money for 17,000 people. Ok let’s see that picture? Oh and 17,000 anyway is a lot more than 3000. And BTW there were more expenses to Lawyers in that LM2 than just the snapshot I posted. There was also another section to SSMP for another $100,000 making the grand total for just that firm alone (Again to represent a lousy 3000 people) at over $700,000.

Okay, so you don't waste your time - this has been asked and answered in many other forums, and card drives - if you want to continue to beat the drum of legal spending you're not going to like the result - Go ahead and cite AMFA's small membership numbers - I'll cite the bloated bureaucracies of industrial unions like the TWU IAM and ibt ... You really think AMFA spends more Legal dollars per member on average than the industrials? Fine, pick a year, and run your numbers ... show your work through verifiable sources like you have LMs' or the OLMS site are fine ... and we will discuss FACTS not anti AMFA talking points.

And what successes does AMFA have? At SWA I think they only have work in like 5 or 6 Stations. At AA they’re in 26 Stations. How many Stations are the Rampers represented by TWU in at SWA? Guaranteed tons more. At AA they’re in 45 Stations. Give me a break on the AMFA success story. They have no successes. Again IMO they’re nothing but a money laundering outfit for the Seeham, Seeham, Meltz and Peterson Law Firm. Period!!!!

More of your typical nonsense - MX vs Ramp stations comparisons mean NOTHING - there isn't an airline flying that has an equal number of MX and Ramp stations - nice try.

BTW ThirdSeatHero you go back a long way here. Your posts are always bashing the IBT and making a play to have an AMFA Drive. So personally I think you’re already part of that organization and just part of the back and forth see saw of SSMP going after established Unions as an excuse for that firm to again siphon money off of those who they claim to represent. Namely the blue collar AMFA dues payers.

Yes, I've been on this site along time. Yes, my posts bash the ibt. I am currently "represented" by them and that representation is sorely lacking. I am not currently affiliated with AMFA, I am a member of the teamsters - Now whats your angle in all of this? When last we engaged on the AA thread you were working in Ramp Service - Have you acquired your tickets? Are you in AA MX now? If not, why are you here? Why do you care if UAL MX goes AMFA, or even your own MX group for that matter?

AMFA has BLOCKED people who are calling them out all over their Social Media pages (Twitter, Facebook, Medium) but the information is going to get out there no matter how much they (maybe you too) try to restrict and censor it.


I haven't restricted anything - that said I do find your complaint a bit hypocritical when you post a youtube TWU/AMFA attack video that has the comment section turned off.

As you say ... "the information is going to get out there no matter how much they (maybe you too) try to restrict and censor it." ...
 
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WeAAsles

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No whats obvious are the anti AMFA talking points haven't changed much.

I was part of 5 AMFA drives at UAL - 4 failed due to the same company/IAM type collusion seen at AA, until finally, after all the dead & retirees, all the last minute added work groups, we finally won on the 5th try and replaced the IAM.

We were successful, and if the membership at AA want change and are persistant in their efforts, they will get that change.



Okay, so you don't waste your time - this has been asked and answered in many other forums, and card drives - if you want to continue to beat the drum of legal spending you're not going to like the result - Go ahead and cite AMFA's small membership numbers - I'll cite the bloated bureaucracies of industrial unions like the TWU IAM and ibt ... You really think AMFA spends more Legal dollars per member on average than the industrials? Fine, pick a year, and run your numbers ... show your work through verifiable sources like you have LMs' or the OLMS site are fine ... and we will discuss FACTS not anti AMFA talking points.



More of your typical nonsense - MX vs Ramp stations comparisons mean NOTHING - there isn't an airline flying that has an equal number of MX and Ramp stations - nice try.



Yes, I've been on this site along time. Yes, my posts bash the ibt. I am currently "represented" by them and that representation is sorely lacking. I am not currently affiliated with AMFA, I am a member of the teamsters - Now whats your angle in all of this? When last we engaged on the AA thread you were working in Ramp Service - Have you acquired your tickets? Are you in AA MX now? If not, why are you here? Why do you care if UAL MX goes AMFA, or even your own MX group for that matter?




I haven't restricted anything - that said I do find your complaint a bit hypocritical when you post a youtube TWU/AMFA attack video that has the comment section turned off.

As you say ... "the information is going to get out there no matter how much they (maybe you too) try to restrict and censor it." ...

5 AMFA drives with 1 being successful and not soon after AMFA being dumped to bring back in the IBT. History is irrelevant though since the Industry has changed since the Stone Age.

Zero doubt at least last year that yes AMFA spent more on Legal (One Law Firm) per issue than most other Airlines. Remembering of course that AMFA ONLY represents a small handful of Mechanics in the Industry. But I’m “only” pointing out the SSMP Lawfirm as I firmly believe they are nothing more than a scheme to bilk those AMT’s who are stupid enough to be represented by them. AMFA is SSMP and SSMP is AMFA.

The numbers may not be equal but having only 5 or 6 Stations is ridiculous. AA Mechanics have over 26 secured Stations and Fleet has 45. Personally I call that solid proof that the TWU and IAM are better Unions. Oh and in compensation AMT’s and related earn the same as their AMFA counterparts with just tons more members.

No one is going for AMFA. Oh yes they do get real verifiable cards but since the NMB keeps declaring that they don’t have enough it’s obvious that they always file short and highly likely they also file with fake signatures. Unfortunately we all know the NMB doesn’t release that information though.

As far as Gary’s videos with the comments turned off you’re right. I’ll give you that one. He absolutely should open those videos up to comments (And Debate) as I’m 100% positive he’d wipe the floor against anyone who wants to compare those contracts.

Now as far as AMFA at UAL that’s nothing more than it being the season again. If the IBT is about to start negotiations that’s always when the AMFA bottom feeders come out to cause disruption. That’s the best time to conduct raids so SSMP can keep getting paid that yearly bread and butter to support their families and lifestyles. They don’t give a rats ass about those AMT’s. Just how much money they got in their wallets that they can take.