I'm ready to go AMFA

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Nevermind, I found it.

Compare these to our TWU POS.

Double time
Holidays
Vacation
Sick Pay
Shift Differential
Longevity

There's probably more.......but I get pissed and have to stop..!!!

TWU's GOTTA GO
 
:) never left..just get tired of the AMFA hardcore supporters, there's a few here. I get tired/negative after trying to support all the AMTs. So stay quiet. If you vote them (AMFA) in you will see what I mean. It was a great profession till AMFA came along.
 
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Brain said:
:) never left..just get tired of the AMFA hardcore supporters, there's a few here. I get tired/negative after trying to support all the AMTs. So stay quiet. If you vote them (AMFA) in you will see what I mean. It was a great profession till AMFA came along.
Click to expand...

plus 1
 
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Brain said:
:) never left..just get tired of the AMFA hardcore supporters, there's a few here. I get tired/negative after trying to support all the AMTs. So stay quiet. If you vote them (AMFA) in you will see what I mean. It was a great profession till AMFA came along.
Click to expand...
Brain

It always has been a great profession, its not because of AMFA that the industry has changed and we the mechnics have let the unions we have and the companies we work for cut our pay, take vacation, holiday pay, holidays, and so much more away. There is NO FIGHT in the mechanics of this era. We would rather sit by and let others take up the fight. I've got better things to worry about. The company does not care so why should I. If they paid me more we would work harder, same ole union bs they are only going to screw us anyway. Sound familiar?

We comment on what the pilots are doing, how it effect the airline. We have the possiblity of a large number of mechanics hitting the street between now and next Sept. We bicker back and forth as to which union we should have here at AA. Has the TWU done that great of a job in all the yrs they have been here? My answer is "NO".
No matter which union gets in here the TWU needs to GO. It's time for a change. UAL changed several times we at AA have had the TWU forever and we all just sit back and let them lead us down a road to destruction.

All the guys pushing AMFA, are just sick of the TWU and the way things are being done here. Some may rub guys the wrong way with what they say and by thier actions but the bottom line is that the TWU needs to GO.
Attacking them only causes more decent between us. Its not the line against O/H we all have a place here.
It should be an equal vote when it comes to how the contract effects each member.

We just need to be better informed, not just let a few tell us what to think or how to vote or which union should be here.

AA has looks at us just parts changers, that is what we have shown them. I never done that before, I don't feel comfortable with that. We try harder to get out of work than just getting it done. Until we the AMT's of the industry show the airlines what we are worth. We will get treated as such, and they the companies will contract out work at a lower pay rate to the MRO's and overseas maintenanace facilities.

WE need to change the mind set here at AA, the TWU has trained us to think about ourselves, I GOT MINE,
How many times have you heard that since you worked here. Its time to rid AA of the TWU.
 
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AMFAinMIAMI said:
Brain

It always has been a great profession, its not because of AMFA that the industry has changed and we the mechnics have let the unions we have and the companies we work for cut our pay, take vacation, holiday pay, holidays, and so much more away. There is NO FIGHT in the mechanics of this era. We would rather sit by and let others take up the fight. I've got better things to worry about. The company does not care so why should I. If they paid me more we would work harder, same ole union bs they are only going to screw us anyway. Sound familiar?

We comment on what the pilots are doing, how it effect the airline. We have the possiblity of a large number of mechanics hitting the street between now and next Sept. We bicker back and forth as to which union we should have here at AA. Has the TWU done that great of a job in all the yrs they have been here? My answer is "NO".
No matter which union gets in here the TWU needs to GO. It's time for a change. UAL changed several times we at AA have had the TWU forever and we all just sit back and let them lead us down a road to destruction.

All the guys pushing AMFA, are just sick of the TWU and the way things are being done here. Some may rub guys the wrong way with what they say and by thier actions but the bottom line is that the TWU needs to GO.
Attacking them only causes more decent between us. Its not the line against O/H we all have a place here.
It should be an equal vote when it comes to how the contract effects each member.

We just need to be better informed, not just let a few tell us what to think or how to vote or which union should be here.

AA has looks at us just parts changers, that is what we have shown them. I never done that before, I don't feel comfortable with that. We try harder to get out of work than just getting it done. Until we the AMT's of the industry show the airlines what we are worth. We will get treated as such, and they the companies will contract out work at a lower pay rate to the MRO's and overseas maintenanace facilities.

WE need to change the mind set here at AA, the TWU has trained us to think about ourselves, I GOT MINE,
How many times have you heard that since you worked here. Its time to rid AA of the TWU.
Click to expand...
Fighting is good if you are fighting the good fight. Is AMFA going to stop the outsourcing of AMT work to MROs foreign or domestic? No. Did they do it at AS? No. Did they do it at NW? No. Did they do it at UA? No. In fact they gave away more than they had to. At WN did AMFA bring more work in than AA outsources even after BK? No. They brought in ONE more line of airframe overhaul while allowing 4X that to be sent to El Salvador. Is that fighting? Oh, no. That's losing, BIG! Especially when AMFA has all the leverage. They control all the line maintenance. What would WN outsource if AMFA went on strike? Practically nothing and they would not risk their dominate domestic position and profits. But what did big and bad AMFA do? Tuck their huevos away and took ANOTHER extension of a contract they never negotiated in the first place.

AA is in BK and everyone that has gone through BK emerged with almost all their overhaul capacity outsourced with no contractual language to keep it in. Not the IBT at UA, not AMFA at AS, not AMFA at WN, and not the IAM at US. In fact, if US merges with AA the TWU language will force the combined AA/US to bring work in. Guess what that means, more jobs and more opportunity. Sure the pro-AMFA crowd argues that they will be AMT jobs topping out at $34/hour or OSMs topping out at $23/hour but what are those AMFA, IBT, and IAM people making doing components, engines, and a majority share of their airframe overhaul making? Zero, zilch, nada, nothing. Why? Because in AMFA, IBT, and IAM negotiated contracts the majority share of that work is outsourced to El Salvador, China, Korea, Costa Rica, and low wage MROs in the US.

So why can't AMFA fight to bring these jobs back in at the >$40/hour rate? Because the US government allows all 121 carriers to outsource the overhaul and line work that does not require a direct A&P sign off. So is that the TWU's fault, yes and no but mostly no. Why do I say that? Because the TWU TTD and Political Action/COPE people have been advising people on who is pro-labor but internally and externally we have people telling union people that unions like the TWU are holding the free market back and less regulation is the way to go. That when unions ask for members to get involved in politics and donating to COPE they are trying to help out people that are "free-loaders". So now the pro-business people control our legislature and the business lobbies paint all union people as greedy and lazy people and the majority of us are not.

Long story, short (too late) AMFA can say they fight all they want but even in the difficult anti-union environment the TWU has negotiated 65% of spend IN-HOUSE. AMFA has not done that at ANY of their member airlines and they all outsource massive amounts. AA would love the AMFA type agreement at AA but unfortunately, thousands of TWU members will not. I know many say that more jobs will be lost as new aircraft come in but that is simply not true. It is true that work volume will decline due to new fleets but that will happen no matter what but this is where the TWU language comes in to play. Since 65% of spend must be in-house, as those aircraft age - regardless of fleet size - AA will have to add jobs internally because maintenance spend is capped. At WN AMFA has only secured lines of work in-house. So as aircraft age or the fleet grows, WN only has to maintain those lines and the 2.75 AMT per aircraft floor. No additional work has to come in house so no engine shop, no component shop, and no additional overhaul lines. So unless Boeing or Airbus come up with the maintenance free airplane, 65% of maintenance spend will be a LOT of overhaul jobs at AA, whether that be in TUL, DWH, or TAESL and those people will make a LOT more than the mechanics doing the work in El Salvador, China, Korea, and South Carolina.
 
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I find it unbelievable that you are here defending the TWU actions at AA. And you have the nerve of downing The AMFA at SWA and others.

You are living in some alternate universe.
 
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Overspeed said:
Fighting is good if you are fighting the good fight. Is AMFA going to stop the outsourcing of AMT work to MROs foreign or domestic? No. Did they do it at AS? No. Did they do it at NW? No. Did they do it at UA? No. In fact they gave away more than they had to. At WN did AMFA bring more work in than AA outsources even after BK? No. They brought in ONE more line of airframe overhaul while allowing 4X that to be sent to El Salvador. Is that fighting? Oh, no. That's losing, BIG! Especially when AMFA has all the leverage. They control all the line maintenance. What would WN outsource if AMFA went on strike? Practically nothing and they would not risk their dominate domestic position and profits. But what did big and bad AMFA do? Tuck their huevos away and took ANOTHER extension of a contract they never negotiated in the first place.

AA is in BK and everyone that has gone through BK emerged with almost all their overhaul capacity outsourced with no contractual language to keep it in. Not the IBT at UA, not AMFA at AS, not AMFA at WN, and not the IAM at US. In fact, if US merges with AA the TWU language will force the combined AA/US to bring work in. Guess what that means, more jobs and more opportunity. Sure the pro-AMFA crowd argues that they will be AMT jobs topping out at $34/hour or OSMs topping out at $23/hour but what are those AMFA, IBT, and IAM people making doing components, engines, and a majority share of their airframe overhaul making? Zero, zilch, nada, nothing. Why? Because in AMFA, IBT, and IAM negotiated contracts the majority share of that work is outsourced to El Salvador, China, Korea, Costa Rica, and low wage MROs in the US.

So why can't AMFA fight to bring these jobs back in at the >$40/hour rate? Because the US government allows all 121 carriers to outsource the overhaul and line work that does not require a direct A&P sign off. So is that the TWU's fault, yes and no but mostly no. Why do I say that? Because the TWU TTD and Political Action/COPE people have been advising people on who is pro-labor but internally and externally we have people telling union people that unions like the TWU are holding the free market back and less regulation is the way to go. That when unions ask for members to get involved in politics and donating to COPE they are trying to help out people that are "free-loaders". So now the pro-business people control our legislature and the business lobbies paint all union people as greedy and lazy people and the majority of us are not.

Long story, short (too late) AMFA can say they fight all they want but even in the difficult anti-union environment the TWU has negotiated 65% of spend IN-HOUSE. AMFA has not done that at ANY of their member airlines and they all outsource massive amounts. AA would love the AMFA type agreement at AA but unfortunately, thousands of TWU members will not. I know many say that more jobs will be lost as new aircraft come in but that is simply not true. It is true that work volume will decline due to new fleets but that will happen no matter what but this is where the TWU language comes in to play. Since 65% of spend must be in-house, as those aircraft age - regardless of fleet size - AA will have to add jobs internally because maintenance spend is capped. At WN AMFA has only secured lines of work in-house. So as aircraft age or the fleet grows, WN only has to maintain those lines and the 2.75 AMT per aircraft floor. No additional work has to come in house so no engine shop, no component shop, and no additional overhaul lines. So unless Boeing or Airbus come up with the maintenance free airplane, 65% of maintenance spend will be a LOT of overhaul jobs at AA, whether that be in TUL, DWH, or TAESL and those people will make a LOT more than the mechanics doing the work in El Salvador, China, Korea, and South Carolina.
Click to expand...

Hey Donby,

Your long winded excuse for keeping the twu doesn't answer the reason why the twu shouldn't be removed at AA. Your long winded bs post can't excuse the FACT that the twu international officers are appointed and not elected by the membership and that the twu international officers are unaccountable to the membership. Oh, and not one twu supporter can promote the twu without using an alias.

GO AMFA!
 
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Overspeed said:
Fighting is good if you are fighting the good fight. Is AMFA going to stop the outsourcing of AMT work to MROs foreign or domestic? No. Did they do it at AS? No. Did they do it at NW? No. Did they do it at UA? No. In fact they gave away more than they had to. At WN did AMFA bring more work in than AA outsources even after BK? No. They brought in ONE more line of airframe overhaul while allowing 4X that to be sent to El Salvador. Is that fighting? Oh, no. That's losing, BIG! Especially when AMFA has all the leverage. They control all the line maintenance. What would WN outsource if AMFA went on strike? Practically nothing and they would not risk their dominate domestic position and profits. But what did big and bad AMFA do? Tuck their huevos away and took ANOTHER extension of a contract they never negotiated in the first place.

AA is in BK and everyone that has gone through BK emerged with almost all their overhaul capacity outsourced with no contractual language to keep it in. Not the IBT at UA, not AMFA at AS, not AMFA at WN, and not the IAM at US. In fact, if US merges with AA the TWU language will force the combined AA/US to bring work in. Guess what that means, more jobs and more opportunity. Sure the pro-AMFA crowd argues that they will be AMT jobs topping out at $34/hour or OSMs topping out at $23/hour but what are those AMFA, IBT, and IAM people making doing components, engines, and a majority share of their airframe overhaul making? Zero, zilch, nada, nothing. Why? Because in AMFA, IBT, and IAM negotiated contracts the majority share of that work is outsourced to El Salvador, China, Korea, Costa Rica, and low wage MROs in the US.

So why can't AMFA fight to bring these jobs back in at the >$40/hour rate? Because the US government allows all 121 carriers to outsource the overhaul and line work that does not require a direct A&P sign off. So is that the TWU's fault, yes and no but mostly no. Why do I say that? Because the TWU TTD and Political Action/COPE people have been advising people on who is pro-labor but internally and externally we have people telling union people that unions like the TWU are holding the free market back and less regulation is the way to go. That when unions ask for members to get involved in politics and donating to COPE they are trying to help out people that are "free-loaders". So now the pro-business people control our legislature and the business lobbies paint all union people as greedy and lazy people and the majority of us are not.

Long story, short (too late) AMFA can say they fight all they want but even in the difficult anti-union environment the TWU has negotiated 65% of spend IN-HOUSE. AMFA has not done that at ANY of their member airlines and they all outsource massive amounts. AA would love the AMFA type agreement at AA but unfortunately, thousands of TWU members will not. I know many say that more jobs will be lost as new aircraft come in but that is simply not true. It is true that work volume will decline due to new fleets but that will happen no matter what but this is where the TWU language comes in to play. Since 65% of spend must be in-house, as those aircraft age - regardless of fleet size - AA will have to add jobs internally because maintenance spend is capped. At WN AMFA has only secured lines of work in-house. So as aircraft age or the fleet grows, WN only has to maintain those lines and the 2.75 AMT per aircraft floor. No additional work has to come in house so no engine shop, no component shop, and no additional overhaul lines. So unless Boeing or Airbus come up with the maintenance free airplane, 65% of maintenance spend will be a LOT of overhaul jobs at AA, whether that be in TUL, DWH, or TAESL and those people will make a LOT more than the mechanics doing the work in El Salvador, China, Korea, and South Carolina.
Click to expand...
Overspeed

You need to throttle back, I never said AMFA was a saving grace and that they could or would keep work in house. The Industry is changing more and more Airlines are contracting out work. That is the future at this time. It may change down the road, as the airlines realize doing the work twice is not cost effective.

The IAM, IBT and AMFA all have contracted out work well so has the TWU NOW.

My rant was that we at AA have a union which has NOT done its job for a long time. The leadership at the TWU has failed and we cant vote them out so its time to shed the TWU. I respect that you support the TWU, every one has their opinion.

I have NOT seen the TWU post or send any info to us trying to get us the AMT's to support anything that would tell the FAA, NTSB, congress, anyone that the RLA needs to be changed, outsourcing of aircraft maintenanace to MROs or foriegn Maintenance Facilities is a mistake. The TWU only cares about dues.. That is why we take pay cut after paycut. Its a numbers game to them.

CHANGE IS NEEDED HERE AT AA THE TWU NEEDS TO GO...
 
If the goal is to return and then prevent the exploration of aircraft maintenance in this country, then what needs to change? Is this continual argument on a political level or the history of the unions the answer? I believe this continuous bickering has to stop. As for the political, it seems to be the only real pathway to achieving this goal, but not the existing Republican ( which I am guilty of ) or the Democratic party line. We must ignore these two normal agendas and combine our efforts based solely on the goal of returning aircraft maintenance to United States.

I know what I believe we should do, but what are your suggestions?
 
Buck said:
If the goal is to return and then prevent the exploration of aircraft maintenance in this country, then what needs to change? Is this continual argument on a political level or the history of the unions the answer? I believe this continuous bickering has to stop. As for the political, it seems to be the only real pathway to achieving this goal, but not the existing Republican ( which I am guilty of ) or the Democratic party line. We must ignore these two normal agendas and combine our efforts based solely on the goal of returning aircraft maintenance to United States.

I know what I believe we should do, but what are your suggestions?
Click to expand...
Buck

The unions should in a combined effort let the flying public KNOW that the airlines workers back ground is checked each time we renew our badges. That we are all checked by homeland security each time we swipe our bages to get access to parts of the AOA. Drug test are done and random checks are part of the job.

The FAA has admitted that there is just not enough inspectors to check the maintenanace standards at Foreign MROs and that the aircraft security is not what we have in the USA. I can't say for sure but are the aircraft scanned by anyone before returning to the USA for security and safety of the America flying public.

I think the Congress and the FAA and DOT would sit up and listen if the flying public and the media got wind of that. just my sggestion since you asked..
 
AMFAinMIAMI said:
The FAA has admitted that there is just not enough inspectors to check the maintenanace standards at Foreign MROs and that the aircraft security is not what we have in the USA. I can't say for sure but are the aircraft scanned by anyone before returning to the USA for security and safety of the America flying public.

I think the Congress and the FAA and DOT would sit up and listen if the flying public and the media got wind of that. just my sggestion since you asked..
Click to expand...
Convince the public to pay more in taxes for those things and you will win.
 
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