I'm Sorry

[diogenes]

Thumbs up on the Polynesians, the Samoan and Tongan workers are the best! Hard working, tough as hell, and they don't whine and moan.

Anyone getting into the biz who expects to become wealthy doing it is nuts!

[post="290174"][/post]​

Lift that barge and tote that bale!

 

[barbeetantrums]

My guess is that HP hires young 'ens b/c the ramp work - even though there is technical training/knowledge - is still considered "unskilled labor" and the rates should not be upwards of $20/hr. Heck...even at 16/hr, that totals over 33k per year which is pretty darn good as a ramper. The fact that you can make high-level pay in a low-level position just b/c you stick to that job for several years does not make sense. It's the same as the grocery store baggers in CA that had a strike b/c they were going to have to pay $20 more per month towards health insurance but at $20/hr pay, that is only one hours' worth of work. Why are we paying so much for these unskilled jobs? If you want to stay in the airlines and continue to earn more and more every year, look to higher positions or more skilled positions.

HP realizes that these are entry level jobs and pays accordingly. Hence they get 18 year olds. They seem to complain less.

[post="290145"][/post]​

Where in blazes are you getting these pay scales? They start at $7.50. In six years they will be at $10. I wish I made the money you are quoting.

 

[700UW]

deleted by me

 

[barbeetantrums]

U just off-loaded a bunch of 30-50 year olds to make room for the islanders.

yessss indeed, the plan is working just fine!

[post="290109"][/post]​

If AWA hired 100 American kids out of high school and 100 Islanders (many Islanders are US citizens, of course, but you get the meaning) out of high school, I can almost guarantee all of the Islanders would stay forever and almost all of the American kids would be gone. One coworker from Micronesia told me "I moved to America to work for America West". He and his wife packed up everything and stayed with a cousin so he could get a job at AWA. He loves it and has no plans to leave.

 

[garyjr02]

I wish you people would grow up. HELLO PEOPLE!!! The glory days of the airline industry are over. The days of Pan-Am and Eastern have passed. Regulated airlines are a thing of the passed. High pay is over. Look around folks, you got in too late. you should have started in the fifties with AA, or UA. That way you and the unions could have raped the airlines in the eighties and be enjoying retirement in sunny south florida by now. Ah but alas it is the year 2005. Low fare carriers rule, and fuel is through the roof. The glamor is gone, and life has passed. I feel your pain, but I must say that all this belly-aching is driving me nuts. You work in an industry that rides the heals of the economy. So how about sucking it up, like the steel workers and auto workers, move on. Let the "kids" do the heavy lifting. Stop acting like babies and realize that its not the end of the world. So an HP ramper makes 7.50, well I wanna know what union agreed that 7.50 was a fare wage in PHX 117 degree weather. Moving on to HP. You people should stop feelin all high and mighty about your beloved Mr. Parker. You should have been reading the paper or watching the news, AMERICA WEST WAS GOING DOWN!!! I know tough to swallow. Face it HP was sinking fast, the cinderella story of dereg. was quickly approach an end. You all owe US Air.
Thank You and enjoy the merger
US employee

 

[tug_slug]

Where in blazes are you getting these pay scales? They start at $7.50. In six years they will be at $10. I wish I made the money you are quoting.

[post="290302"][/post]​

Thats my point exactly!

How many 30-50 year olds with a family can afford to work at those kind of wages?

Lets not forget the kids they hire to work the ramp are only considered part time and arent guaranteed 40 hours a week but in all fairness they do get their 40 hours and then some but anything after 40 hours is paid as straight time, getting paid time and half is almost non existant.

Imagine being stationed in Phoenix working 60 hours a week @ $7.50/hr in 115 degree heat? How long would you be able to last working under those conditions?

The employees of US Airways need understand that because AWA and U are going to merge things arent going to get better if anything things are likely to get worst and Doug isnt going to take care of them like some posters on this board would like them to believe. Truth is AWA has an extremely high turnover rate not just in PHX but throughout the entire system.

 

[barbeetantrums]

Face it HP was sinking fast, the cinderella story of dereg. was quickly approach an end. You all owe US Air.

[post="290323"][/post]​

?????? Yeah, you keep thing that if it makes you feel better. What is it 700UW says? Oh! Don't let the facts get in your way.

 

[diogenes]

If AWA hired 100 American kids out of high school and 100 Islanders (many Islanders are US citizens, of course, but you get the meaning) out of high school, I can almost guarantee all of the Islanders would stay forever and almost all of the American kids would be gone. One coworker from Micronesia told me "I moved to America to work for America West". He and his wife packed up everything and stayed with a cousin so he could get a job at AWA. He loves it and has no plans to leave.

[post="290311"][/post]​

I didn't have any plans to leave, either.

 

[diogenes]

I wish you people would grow up. HELLO PEOPLE!!! The glory days of the airline industry are over. The days of Pan-Am and Eastern have passed. Regulated airlines are a thing of the passed. High pay is over. Look around folks, you got in too late. you should have started in the fifties with AA, or UA. That way you and the unions could have raped the airlines in the eighties and be enjoying retirement in sunny south florida by now. Ah but alas it is the year 2005. Low fare carriers rule, and fuel is through the roof. The glamor is gone, and life has passed. I feel your pain, but I must say that all this belly-aching is driving me nuts. You work in an industry that rides the heals of the economy. So how about sucking it up, like the steel workers and auto workers, move on. Let the "kids" do the heavy lifting. Stop acting like babies and realize that its not the end of the world.

[post="290323"][/post]​

Indeed? Please reconcile with this;

http://www.twu555.org/contract.html

Check out page 67


Perhaps it is closer to the truth to say that some carriers,for whatever reason, want to continue business as usual. With fuel costs, facilities, aircraft and landing fees being equal, the carriers with a loser business plan must force their employees to subsidize management's lack of business acumen.

 

[diogenes]

If AWA hired 100 American kids out of high school and 100 Islanders (many Islanders are US citizens, of course, but you get the meaning) out of high school, I can almost guarantee all of the Islanders would stay forever and almost all of the American kids would be gone. One coworker from Micronesia told me "I moved to America to work for America West". He and his wife packed up everything and stayed with a cousin so he could get a job at AWA. He loves it and has no plans to leave.

[post="290311"][/post]​

My point was, US had folks on hand getting the job done. Check the pre BK DOT stats.

I am sure curious as to where its going to end.

When we have outsourced every job possible, and let illegals take the ones left, how are you going to pay the mortgage?

Just curious as to where you think the line should be drawn.

 

[Ch. 12]

diogenes- Yes...WN's pay is better than the other carriers. you know what, though? They are paying less per productivity than the other carriers b/c the WN contracts allow (require) their workers to do much more. Yes...they get paid more but for the amount of work they do...they actually get paid less.

barbee- those pay scales are for other carriers...not HP. My point is that for other carriers, it has come to be expected that you should get paid more than somebody who has a masters degree for doing something that an 18 yr-old just out of HS can do. The work that HP pays 7.50 for and other carriers pay upwards of 20 for is not meant to be a highly skilled career but rather a low level stepping stone. If you want to make a career out of it...don't expect high wages. That is where Hp has got it right.

tug slug- If you are 30-50 yrs old and working a ramp job to support them, you need to re-evaluate. Lower skill jobs should not get paid high wages just b/c people have families to support. I recall working on farms growing up where I was required to use highly technical eqpt and perform what I thought to be skilled tasks. However...I wasn't disallusioned to think that I should be getting paid more than the accountant or the lawyer down the street. I knew that to be working that job when I was 30-50 yrs old to support a family was not an option. If we all should be paid the same rates no matter what type of work we do, we might as well try to revive the cold war but we could be the communists now. Now I know that is extreme but that is really where this argument seems to reach b/c I just don't see why we should complain that a ramper can't support a mortgage, two cars, kids, and utilities. That's alot of pay for a stepping-stone job.

 

[diogenes]

Another urban legend, ch. 12.

Prior to bk, US had cross-utilization prescribed in the CWA and IAM contracts for station operations.

When we at U were going thru this (I feel deja vue all over again), the Palace was trying to sell that WN productivity angle, too.

Sooo, I put up $100 for anyone who could cite ANY US location that cross-utilized.

Still got the Benjamins, dude.

Moreover, WN does not have express operations to lower (in principle) their costs. Everybody at Wn is mainline.

Now, WN certainly was, and is more productive than U. You'd think after two BK's, that would have changed.

But the REASON WN is more productive is not because they're supermen. The proof of this is simple. Ck the US vs. WN DOT metrics from 1995-2001.

Comparable stats.

The reason is, WN management uses their workforce more efficiently.

Plain and simple. US stuck with business as usual, and forced the employees to pay for it.

 

[twambassador]

There is a big difference between high pay and livable wage. 7.50/h is not a livable wage. People that work need to earn a livable wage. In a country as wealthy as ours, it's a crime for anyone to work and still live below poverty. I bet you anything, if the pie is shared more fairly between all work groups, you can achieve that. Unfortunately, that's not the case. You have some management and some work groups that are overpaid, and others that are way underpaid. It's all about redefining the pie more fairly. My other issue is why unskilled labor should accept to live in poverty? Unskilled labor does not equal easy job. Some unskilled labor is the toughest type of work that can be done (try corn detasseling), and people should be compensated fairly for that hard work, albeit unskilled. Why should a Ramp Agent live below poverty while working in 117 or in 25 below degrees doing manual labor? Do I think the world is going to change overnight? NO, but we have to strive for better living conditions and we can't just give up and say "those days are over". If everyone thought that, we'd all still be working for landlords

 

[usfliboi]

As a US employee I can honestly say in my opinion whether you like them or not they have saved this airline and prepared it to have the ablity to not only merge with another healthy managed carrier but more importantly saved its name and its employees. We are far far ahead of the likes of Delats NWA and the rest!

 

[barbeetantrums]

As a US employee I can honestly say in my opinion whether you like them or not they have saved this airline and prepared it to have the ablity to not only merge with another healthy managed carrier but more importantly saved its name and its employees. We are far far ahead of the likes of Delats NWA and the rest!

[post="290853"][/post]​

I like the way you think!