July - IAM Fleet Service Discussions
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pjirish317
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- Sep 21, 2007
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Unofficailly, all the candidates from 141Rising won. Thankfully no one from the "it's all about me ticket", aka, the occupy ticket, or the canoli wannabe ticket, aka, the leadership for progress ticket, won any positions. There may have been a few that were good apples on either of those tickets, but unfortunately they did not make it in.
Tim Nelson
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The best possible way that US AIRWAYS fleet service could lose 'significant' seniority is if there was an election between the IAM and TWU and the TWU won.
If US AIRWAYS buys American or does any reverse merger, the decision on June 4, 2012, of the arbitrator from the Southwest/Airtran decision looms large. Southwest ramp = TWU. Airtran ramp = IAM and non contract.
Remember, the TWU insisted that since Southwest bought Airtran and that its contract had the adversity clause in the TWU contract that a 4 for 1 seniority would do. IAM 142 sent it to arbitration and the arbitrator ruled that airtran rampers in the hub, i.e., ATL, would be 'day for day'. That is roughly 50% of all rampers at airtran. Non hub employees didn't lose seniority but fell behind the award by 2.5 years.
Applying this decision to AMR/US AIRWAYS, no US AIRWAYS employee in PHL, PHX, CLT would have their seniority affected, and the non hub employees may lose 2 or 3 years. Losing time is never acceptable but if the IAM forces an election and the TWU wins then the TWU is free to bypass the McCaskill Bond Act and apply it's own reasoning based on its own internal policies.
Further, please note, that the Pilots at airtran negotiated and agreed to a seniority integration and waived arbitration. But after the arbitration award for the IAM airtran ramp, the Pilots at airtran would have been much better off rolling the dice at arbitration. Remember, all airtran pilots have to be laid off before 1 Southwest Pilot.
Interesting but important things to consider. If the IAM plays a gambit and attempts to organizing the AMR ramp but then fails to win an election, it could provide a huge seniority deficit for IAM rampers at US AIRWAYS. I for one wouldn't want to trust our members seniority in the hands of the TWU without the McCaskill Bond Act.
regards,
If US AIRWAYS buys American or does any reverse merger, the decision on June 4, 2012, of the arbitrator from the Southwest/Airtran decision looms large. Southwest ramp = TWU. Airtran ramp = IAM and non contract.
Remember, the TWU insisted that since Southwest bought Airtran and that its contract had the adversity clause in the TWU contract that a 4 for 1 seniority would do. IAM 142 sent it to arbitration and the arbitrator ruled that airtran rampers in the hub, i.e., ATL, would be 'day for day'. That is roughly 50% of all rampers at airtran. Non hub employees didn't lose seniority but fell behind the award by 2.5 years.
Applying this decision to AMR/US AIRWAYS, no US AIRWAYS employee in PHL, PHX, CLT would have their seniority affected, and the non hub employees may lose 2 or 3 years. Losing time is never acceptable but if the IAM forces an election and the TWU wins then the TWU is free to bypass the McCaskill Bond Act and apply it's own reasoning based on its own internal policies.
Further, please note, that the Pilots at airtran negotiated and agreed to a seniority integration and waived arbitration. But after the arbitration award for the IAM airtran ramp, the Pilots at airtran would have been much better off rolling the dice at arbitration. Remember, all airtran pilots have to be laid off before 1 Southwest Pilot.
Interesting but important things to consider. If the IAM plays a gambit and attempts to organizing the AMR ramp but then fails to win an election, it could provide a huge seniority deficit for IAM rampers at US AIRWAYS. I for one wouldn't want to trust our members seniority in the hands of the TWU without the McCaskill Bond Act.
regards,
Tim Nelson
Veteran
http://twubkfacts.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=YE7Bv-Vylns%3d&tabid=1494
for rampers to review. The TWU got increases with its "me too' clause which positively affected the pay/benefits of the ramp craft.
regards,
for rampers to review. The TWU got increases with its "me too' clause which positively affected the pay/benefits of the ramp craft.
regards,
JFK Fleet Service
Veteran
It's a Phyrric Victory at best.The TWU just attached themselves to someone else like a lamprey,they didn't "Fight like hell" for anything.We're still looking at numerous station closures, loss of jobs (Fueling, Dayline Cabin Service and Freight/Mail in all but the five "Cornerstone" stations).
I know in NYC we're bracing for the displacements that are inevitable with EWR closing and it being part of the NYC one station agreement.
I know in NYC we're bracing for the displacements that are inevitable with EWR closing and it being part of the NYC one station agreement.
Tim Nelson
Veteran
None of these ramp unions fight like hell, all they do is want to keep dues flow and if that means whacking another 1,000 ramp jobs then that's what they all do. If there is an election, it will be between huey and duey.
regards,
ograc
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- Jan 30, 2012
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JFK Fleet Service,
Important to keep in mind these are not normal contract negotiations. The unions are expected to reach an agreed to concessionary dollar amount or face the abrogation of existing contracts. Niether choice is good. It's choosing the lesser of the two evils. Both, unfortunately, involve station closures and job loss. One may involve more than the other. It will be interesting to see how the groups that rejected the final offer will fare. We went through the same demonic process at US. Definately know the pain and frustration.
ograc
Tim Nelson
Veteran
The pilots did better by refusing to allow the 'final offer' to be voted on. Then the 'next' final offer came up and it was 14% better. That's how the TWU got a boost, and that's part of how one negotiates a better solution.
regards,
US Airways talks resuming; Value of ‘Me Too’
Contract talks between District 141 and US Airways will also resume after the holiday. As the company continues to move aggressively to force a merger with American Airlines, we are trying to be as equally aggressive in protecting our members and their seniority. Last week, the Transport Workers Union (TWU) signed an agreement with American Airlines improving the terms of the recently ratified contract for Fleet Service. These improvements,eliminating the planned wage cuts and replacing them with wage increases and modification of the 401(k) contributions and insurance costs, were possible due to a “me too” clause within the contract negotiated during bankruptcy. Since the company reduced their demands for the pilot group, the TWU exercised their right to a “me too” reduction in their concessions.
The concept of “me too” is the basis for our proposal for seniority protection for current IAM members at US Airways. We seek to have the same seniority protection as the current AA members. It is difficult to understand why US Airways would be opposed to such a “level playing field” approach to basic protection for their own employees, but that has been their position. Our negotiating team will be meeting with federal mediator Andrew Nordgren at the beginning of the negotiations week and he will meet separately with the company at that time also. We will continue to meet with the company and discuss other areas of concern in our contract but will push for a resolution to our seniority protection proposal.
It is interesting to note that part of the AA/TWU amended agreement includes a provision for an “Industry ‘Comparable’ Pay Rate Adjustment”. This adjustment would guarantee that AA employees would be entitled to the industry average — not top — wages in the future. It is also interesting that the competitive airline wage rates this comparison will include the current US Airways rates. It does not include the current Southwest Airlines rates.
Contract talks between District 141 and US Airways will also resume after the holiday. As the company continues to move aggressively to force a merger with American Airlines, we are trying to be as equally aggressive in protecting our members and their seniority. Last week, the Transport Workers Union (TWU) signed an agreement with American Airlines improving the terms of the recently ratified contract for Fleet Service. These improvements,eliminating the planned wage cuts and replacing them with wage increases and modification of the 401(k) contributions and insurance costs, were possible due to a “me too” clause within the contract negotiated during bankruptcy. Since the company reduced their demands for the pilot group, the TWU exercised their right to a “me too” reduction in their concessions.
The concept of “me too” is the basis for our proposal for seniority protection for current IAM members at US Airways. We seek to have the same seniority protection as the current AA members. It is difficult to understand why US Airways would be opposed to such a “level playing field” approach to basic protection for their own employees, but that has been their position. Our negotiating team will be meeting with federal mediator Andrew Nordgren at the beginning of the negotiations week and he will meet separately with the company at that time also. We will continue to meet with the company and discuss other areas of concern in our contract but will push for a resolution to our seniority protection proposal.
It is interesting to note that part of the AA/TWU amended agreement includes a provision for an “Industry ‘Comparable’ Pay Rate Adjustment”. This adjustment would guarantee that AA employees would be entitled to the industry average — not top — wages in the future. It is also interesting that the competitive airline wage rates this comparison will include the current US Airways rates. It does not include the current Southwest Airlines rates.
ograc
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- Jan 30, 2012
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Tim,
14% better for whom? The ones who remain employed? There will still be station closings and job loss. Better for some with the "me too" clause for sure. Imo... outsourcing of jobs and station closings are being traded off for compensatory improvements to the members in larger stations. Is this sounding familiar to you? This is exactly how it went down at US. Senior employees in outline stations being shown the door while far junior employees in larger stations receive 14% better blood money. Imo... based on what unions were founded on this cannot be considered negotiating a better solution. Maybe I'm missing something...
ograc
Tim Nelson
Veteran
Just saying that the TWU settled for alot less, including job loss, but then ALPA got more and the TWU 'me too' kicked in.
The problem is that even though ALPA got a 'no layoff' guarantee, why is that not happening for the TWU rampers? I never understood how deep concessions would also mean contracting out jobs. If a company asks a group to give back and keep it from chapter 7 then why lay off those who are making the sacrifices if the job still exist?
At any rate, each contract we have had with the IAM, in good times and bad, have been job losing contracts. I'm sure the TWU and IBT aren't any better. I blame that on Canale, he should have had the leadership to avoid the IAM exclusive seniority cleansing article and the IAM exclusive 'class 2 pay'. The CWA did a much better job.
regards,
Tim Nelson
Veteran
What is even more interesting is that in bankruptcy, when compared, the AA ramp got a pay raise, still has better scope, and make about $1 more than Delaney's UA ramp who are working for the most profitable carrier in the industry and haven't gotten a raise in 5 years.
regards,
niblet
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