July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Thank God. He would just start in on pilots picking up papers again.

Here's the scope committee update:

Scope Quarterly Meeting Recap


Aug. 01, 2012

On Thursday, July 19, 2012, the USAPA Scope Committee attended the Quarterly Scope Compliance meeting at Company Headquarters in Tempe.
USAPA was represented by Scope Committee members Mark King, Patrick O’Neill and Tracy Wright. The meeting was hosted by Beth Holdren, and included Andrew Nocella, Heather Garboden and Eric Pao.
As this was the first time for your new Scope Committee, Heather Garboden walked us through the aircraft utilization calculation. The monthly calculation divides block hours, derived from ACARS data, by available aircraft days. The results confirm the Company is in compliance with the minimum aircraft utilizations required in the Transition Agreement.
Current aircraft utilizations continue to trend upward, exceeding the 8.79 East/9.87 West requirements per hull.
Remember, we have seen daily utilizations fall on East 737's as they are phased-out (which mirrors what happened in PHX when they were leaving). It might appear to pilots on those aircraft that compliance might be in question. But these are average utilization numbers taken over the entire fleet, so Airbus aircraft may be used for more hours during the day than older Boeings.


O'Neil is a west pilot, isn't he? Are you saying he is lying?

Damn...you corrected me again......

I was still thinking we were operating under the Cleary regime, where I know the West asked and was rebuffed for verification of this topic.

Note...it is a new committee....and yes I noted that Patric O'neil is a member, so there is West representation.

Thank God. He would just start in on pilots picking up papers again.

Here's the scope committee update:

Scope Quarterly Meeting Recap


Aug. 01, 2012

On Thursday, July 19, 2012, the USAPA Scope Committee attended the Quarterly Scope Compliance meeting at Company Headquarters in Tempe.
USAPA was represented by Scope Committee members Mark King, Patrick O’Neill and Tracy Wright. The meeting was hosted by Beth Holdren, and included Andrew Nocella, Heather Garboden and Eric Pao.
As this was the first time for your new Scope Committee, Heather Garboden walked us through the aircraft utilization calculation. The monthly calculation divides block hours, derived from ACARS data, by available aircraft days. The results confirm the Company is in compliance with the minimum aircraft utilizations required in the Transition Agreement.
Current aircraft utilizations continue to trend upward, exceeding the 8.79 East/9.87 West requirements per hull.
Remember, we have seen daily utilizations fall on East 737's as they are phased-out (which mirrors what happened in PHX when they were leaving). It might appear to pilots on those aircraft that compliance might be in question. But these are average utilization numbers taken over the entire fleet, so Airbus aircraft may be used for more hours during the day than older Boeings.


O'Neil is a west pilot, isn't he? Are you saying he is lying?

Damn...you corrected me again.

I thought we were still operating under the Cleary usapa that denied the West access to this info.

Patric is filling his plate pretty full. Sope committee, appeals board.

 

[cleardirect]

clear you never answered my question. How many A/C does the west have now?

Min fleet 120.

 

[Pi brat]

Min fleet 120. Read the scope monitoring update.

I wanted to get it from you since you brought it up. So, the west has gone from 144 A/C on the date of the merger down to 120, for about a 17% reduction. If you exclude the 190s, they east has gone from 270 to 204, about a 24% reduction. If you include the 190s it is still a 19% reduction with the 190s having even lower pay. How is that growth again?

You asked how the east has moved up and hired. On the updated Nic award a west pilot produced I have moved up 376 seniority numbers since the nic award was published. I don't know how many of those were east guys for sure, but the oldest bid I have is from Feb 2007 and since then I have moved up 265 east numbers. I had moved up quite a bit from May 2005 until 2007, but not sure how many.

 

[Pi brat]

Also clear, have you read the staffing section of the Nic award? You guys were carrying many more pilots per A/C on the narrow bodies than we were. I figured that if we were staffed like you guys on the 757, A320 and 737 we would have had 635 more pilots on our list.

 

[Pi brat]

Also clear, have you read the staffing section of the Nic award? You guys were carrying many more pilots per A/C on the narrow bodies than we were. I figured that if we were staffed like you guys on the 757, A320 and 737 we would have had 635 more pilots on our list.

Looking at it again that might be off as I'm not sure how many IROs we were using on the 757. If you just used A320 and 737 it would be 400 more pilots.

 

[A320 Driver]

Assumption???

Yeah...but, I really do think the fewer blades with the wide chord handle ingestion better. Not only birds but iceing can be an issue . CFM had to redo that spinner because of problems with ice accumulation.

The other thing about CFM...when they shut down, there is so much blade rattle it sounds like the thing is coming apart, what is with that, the engines we had on the 737-300 made some noise but nowhere near as much as the CFMs on the 320.

The problem was water ingestion. That was all dealt with long before we had the 320s (East). I'm no expert on the fan blade mounting but it seems to be normal.

Driver...

 

[luvn737s]

I really don't understand this talk about scabbing and stealing jobs. Management had to shut down LAS because it was bleeding money. They moved all of you to PHX where today, much of your flying is actually East flying, but it keeps you above minimum fleet count. You are getting as much benefit as anyone out of this merger. I suppose it depends how you look at it, but that is my take on it. If I'm wrong, show me the numbers and show me where the West generated all that flying, ON IT'S OWN, to replace what was lost.

This is a serious question and NOT flamebait.

Driver...

Can you show me of one instance where a key USAPA leader has publicly stood up for the punishment the west has had to endure as a result of the merger and demanded that they enjoy equal benefits of the merger? If USAPA cannot advocate for ALL the pilots regardless of base, they should be replaced by another union.

BTW, are they that shortsighted as to not realize that when folks begin to move around the system, they will be campaigning for the formerly west pilot's vote? Yes, yes they are.

 

[luvthe9]

A/C #s 270, 271, 272, 273, 274, 275, 276, 277, 278
-200s start at #279.

You get the prize for the biggest assumption of the day.

Yes, we are intimately familiar with LOA93...it sucks. I had no idea you guys were so upset about it. Most of you post "enjoy LOA93".

Driver...

Coming from the second lowest paid in the industry and the original scab outfit (Ansett) In the bar at CLT I over heard west boys saying they can't wait to get their hands on and AA 777, wow talk about entitlement!!!

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

The PHX hub is a loser and thats your problem not ours.

Stick it in your ear 🙂

 

[A320 Driver]

Can you show me of one instance where a key USAPA leader has publicly stood up for the punishment the west has had to endure as a result of the merger and demanded that they enjoy equal benefits of the merger? If USAPA cannot advocate for ALL the pilots regardless of base, they should be replaced by another union.

BTW, are they that shortsighted as to not realize that when folks begin to move around the system, they will be campaigning for the formerly west pilot's vote? Yes, yes they are.

Considering the fact that we have been on LOA93 since before this merger, I won't even attempt a response this this.

 

[A320 Driver]

Coming from the second lowest paid in the industry and the original scab outfit (Ansett) In the bar at CLT I over heard west boys saying they can't wait to get their hands on and AA 777, wow talk about entitlement!!!

I can't say I am surprised. Seems to really tick off some of them off that they haven't been able to get their hands on the widebodies yet.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I can't say I am surprised. Seems to really tick off some of them off that they haven't been able to get their hands on the widebodies yet.

Talks broke down at CRWYE RIVER because of it, reality check, they could be sold with their contract to someone else during these merger times, 777 at AA yea right!, They will be lucky if their paired with FRONTIER! MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Can you show me of one instance where a key USAPA leader has publicly stood up for the punishment the west has had to endure as a result of the merger and demanded that they enjoy equal benefits of the merger? If USAPA cannot advocate for ALL the pilots regardless of base, they should be replaced by another union.

BTW, are they that shortsighted as to not realize that when folks begin to move around the system, they will be campaigning for the formerly west pilot's vote? Yes, yes they are.

PUNISHMENT?, Campaigning, not quite when they have realized the attrition train will kick in and how much better off they are, remember caimpaigning for the WEST means putting 1600 pilots ahead of those on the fast track of widebody attrition! DREAM ON! FUD!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

We were not talking "growth"...we were talking who brought what, and who has claim to what.

Please do get usapa right on openly sharing all flying amongst all pilots on a better pay and benefits CBA. Just make sure you remind them all pilots have a final and binding seniority integration agreement.

I do not think you will be successful. I think it is usapa's stated purpose of reneging on the agreement the pilots they represent have with the other pilots they have a DFR to represent. As a matter of fact, I believe there is video of the little lawyer explaining the scab plan of undercutting West pay to entice the company to collude with usapa in violating the TA.

Run along now write those checks, get it crank'n, MARTY needs a new car! MM

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

[background=transparent][background=transparent]US Airways and America West Retirements Comparison[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]US Airways Retirements[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]America West Retirements[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]from 9/1/2005 through 2035[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]from 9/1/2005 through 2039[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent](All pilots: including furloughed)[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]Year[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]Number[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]Cumulative[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]Cumulative %[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]Year[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]Number[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]Cumulative[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]Cumulative %[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2005[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]48[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]48[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]0.96%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2005[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]13[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]13[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]0.69%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2006[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]197[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]245[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]4.88%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2006[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]34[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]47[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2.49%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2007[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]239[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]484[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]9.64%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2007[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]43[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]90[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]4.76%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2008[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]186[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]670[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]13.34%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2008[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]46[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]136[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]7.20%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2009[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]238[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]908[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]18.08%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2009[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]47[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]183[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]9.69%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2010[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]198[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]1106[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]22.02%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2010[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]52[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]235[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]12.44%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2011[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]254[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]1360[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]27.08%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2011[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]44[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]279[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]14.77%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2012[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]272[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]1632[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]32.49%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2012[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]65[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]344[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]18.21%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2013[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]296[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]1928[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]38.38%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2013[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]51[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]395[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]20.91%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2014[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]296[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2224[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]44.28%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2014[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]77[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]472[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]24.99%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2015[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]300[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2524[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]50.25%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2015[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]69[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]541[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]28.64%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2016[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]299[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2823[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]56.20%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2016[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]68[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]609[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]32.24%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2017[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]262[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]3085[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]61.42%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2017[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]66[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]675[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]35.73%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2018[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]271[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]3356[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]66.81%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font][/background][/color][/size][/font][/color][/size][/font] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2020[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]229[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]3802[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]75.69%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2020[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]88[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]926[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]49.02%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2021[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]174[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]3976[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]79.16%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2021[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]90[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]1016[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]53.79%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2022[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]170[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]4146[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]82.54%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2022[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]94[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]1110[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]58.76%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2023[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]151[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]4297[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]85.55%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2023[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]77[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]1187[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]62.84%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2024[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]120[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]4417[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]87.94%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2024[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]92[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]1279[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]67.71%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2025[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]98[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]4515[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]89.89%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2025[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]94[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]1373[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]72.68%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2026[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]103[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]4618[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]91.94%[/background][/background]
[background=transparent][background=transparent]2026[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]77[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]1450[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]76.76%[/background][/background] [background=transparent][background=transparent]2027[/background][/background] [size="2"​