July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[HPearlyretiree]

You've such obvious, great love for good old AWA...One must wonder why it is that your sorry ass no longer works there...? 😉

Unlike a poor union schlub like you, I can move from company to company and make money, and not be tied to some silly seniority list. I have my flight bennies, I don't have to be part of some collective dead union job. I can go from company to company with my skills.

You? Not so much.

LOL

 

[traderjake]

Ok boys and girls over 3 weeks off, and heading to the shore tomorrow, I'll try to check in you kids from time to time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zhWc1RfM9g

Luv, have you run into these guys yet?

 

[cleardirect]

Subj: For the masses. UAL ALPA Washington council 11 NIMBY resolution 08/06/2010


A regular meeting of the UAL Council 11 was held at 10:00 am at the Dulles Airport Marriott on August 6, 2010.

Protections Against Unexpected Windfalls in SLI – Scanlon/Ferguson

WHEREAS binding arbitration results in merger seniority integrations have resulted in unexpected windfalls and damage
to thousands of pilots, such as in the US Airways/America West merger, and

WHEREAS negotiation can produce a better result for a pilot group (US Airways pilots turned down a better offer in
negotiation than they got in binding arbitration), and

WHEREAS the US Airways pilots’ cure for the binding arbitration decision was to leave ALPA, prevent implementation
by not signing a JCBA, and then overturn that binding arbitration in court, and

WHEREAS the United pilots and Continental pilots should be able to agree on the limits of the decision to be made in
binding arbitration, and

WHEREAS the change to ALPA Merger Policy took away the tool that was used by the US Airways pilots to stop the
binding arbitration award, and

WHEREAS the pilots of United Airlines refuse to throw their seniority at the mercy of a single person in binding
arbitration without reasonable limits,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the members of C11 direct their C11 officers to require a negotiation with
Continental pilots to arrive at reasonable limits for the authority of the arbitrator, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the members of C11 direct their C11 officers to refuse to accept any contract until an
arbitration agreement is established with protections against unexpected windfalls and damage, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the members of C11 direct its chairman to establish a committee of C11 members
from both sides of the “politics” that exist in the MEC and LEC to advise the C11 members’ officers on this issue.

Ruled untimely by the chairman.

First off why are you quoting an ALPA product? Have you not said that ALPA is the devil and anything ALPA does is wrong should be disregarded?

Second you did notice the little thing at the bottom that it was ruled untimely? You know the term, NOT RIPE so therefore irrelevant.

But most of all it is poorly written chest pounding piece written to stir emotions. It says nothing does nothing and is unenforceable.

However the one thing it does say is that negotiations are better than arbitration. That advice is what you should have taken and negotiated not demanded and force arbitration.

 

[Phoenix]

I have read the entire decision Claxole.

Not once...ever...in the entire decision... including your above quote.....does the 9th say that the class and craft usapa represents is not bound to the Nic.

.

. .

Wake placed an injunction on USAPA, binding them to using the Nic. You have your head in the sand.

 

[oscarjazz]

How did the three arbitrators come up with the 274 number? Did they provide their reasoning or was it NWA's proposal?

The Pull and Plug idea came from the Delta side. There was a mediation session in the middle of the arbitration hearings and at that session the mediator (who was the chairman of the arbitration panel) asked both sides to change their positions. The Delta side actually complied and came up with the Pull and Plug to address the concerns the arbitration panel had over the attrition differential. Delta initially proposed to use 173 of the oldest 500 pilots to have a better sampling of the seniority range of retiring pilots. The oldest NWA pilots were mostly 747 engineers that were past age 65 and well down the list. They could not bid for any position other than engineer due to their age.

The number 274 was arrived after a lot of trial and error by the panel. It basically was the number of pilots slated to retire in the 5 years following the award (remember it was done in 2008 after the age 65 change). The panel never gave a definitive reason for 274 other than "that looks about right".

Because the Delta pilots engaged in mediation and didn't walk away, they had more control over the final list build including the staffing ratios and the ratio categories to be used. That is what comes from making hard choices and staying in the game. Obstinance gets you a trip to the naughty corner.

As I said before, the East merger committee and MEC did not stay in the game. When they refused to modify their position they removed their ability to affect the final outcome. Mr. Nicolau, still a highly respected arbitrator, asked for their help to solve his problems. The East refused. Then they were upset with the solutions he derived himself. Who is to blame for that?

 

[luvthe9]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zhWc1RfM9g

Luv, have you run into these guys yet?

At least you have a good sense of humor!!!!!

 

[luvthe9]

Don't recall the last time we had to have a resolution on the president of the union that he must tell the membership where is he going and who he is speaking to. Hey Gary, what about all the transparnecy, you LIED to all us in you campaign promise. We have had enough of these compass correction idiots and their lies. Just wait till we see what's next!!!!

 

[Phoenix]

The Pull and Plug idea came from the Delta side. There was a mediation session in the middle of the arbitration hearings and at that session the mediator (who was the chairman of the arbitration panel) asked both sides to change their positions. The Delta side actually complied and came up with the Pull and Plug to address the concerns the arbitration panel had over the attrition differential. Delta initially proposed to use 173 of the oldest 500 pilots to have a better sampling of the seniority range of retiring pilots. The oldest NWA pilots were mostly 747 engineers that were past age 65 and well down the list. They could not bid for any position other than engineer due to their age.

The number 274 was arrived after a lot of trial and error by the panel. It basically was the number of pilots slated to retire in the 5 years following the award (remember it was done in 2008 after the age 65 change). The panel never gave a definitive reason for 274 other than "that looks about right".

Because the Delta pilots engaged in mediation and didn't walk away, they had more control over the final list build including the staffing ratios and the ratio categories to be used. That is what comes from making hard choices and staying in the game. Obstinance gets you a trip to the naughty corner.

As I said before, the East merger committee and MEC did not stay in the game. When they refused to modify their position they removed their ability to affect the final outcome. Mr. Nicolau, still a highly respected arbitrator, asked for their help to solve his problems. The East refused. Then they were upset with the solutions he derived himself. Who is to blame for that?

Who is to blame?


What is there to point fingers about? Perhaps the Delta pilots shared a responsibility in the outcome of the arbitrators position since as you say they used their influence. Nicolau on the other hand worked at the behest of ALPA national and made his decision. Big deal. If he needed more help to make a reasonable decision then he could have gone to ALPA. I don't think anyone faults Nicolau for not getting enough help. He did the best he could.

Prater and the board, on the other hand, they didn't do ####, and they paid the price.

 

[Phoenix]

First off why are you quoting an ALPA product? Have you not said that ALPA is the devil and anything ALPA does is wrong should be disregarded?

Obviously it isn't an ALPA product. The leaders killed it.

The author and sponsors of the resolution have grave concerns about the deficiencies in ALPA policies. Now they have cause for grave concerns about their leaders willingness and/or ability to address those deficiencies.

 

[Res Judicata]

Don't recall the last time we had to have a resolution on the president of the union that he must tell the membership where is he going and who he is speaking to. Hey Gary, what about all the transparnecy, you LIED to all us in you campaign promise. We have had enough of these compass correction idiots and their lies. Just wait till we see what's next!!!!

Oh yes, pining away for the crystal clear transparency of Kim Jong Cleary? What ever happened to that disgraced eunuch anyway? Did he go to the Jersey Shore motel 6 with you?

 

[cleardirect]

Who is to blame?


What is there to point fingers about? Perhaps the Delta pilots shared a responsibility in the outcome of the arbitrators position since as you say they used their influence. Nicolau on the other hand worked at the behest of ALPA national and made his decision. Big deal. If he needed more help to make a reasonable decision then he could have gone to ALPA. I don't think anyone faults Nicolau for not getting enough help. He did the best he could.

Prater and the board, on the other hand, they didn't do ####, and they paid the price.

Seriously?????

Are you so ignorant of ALPA merger policy that you would try and throw this BS out?

Nicolau did not work for ALPA national he worked for and was paid by aaa and AWA.

ALPA national set up the rules and stepped back. It was up to the aaa and AWA pilots to find a solution. So don't go blaming ALPA, blame the east pilots for abandoning your responsibility. Man up and at least accept the responsibility for your mistakes.

 

[nevergiveup]

Unlike a poor union schlub like you, I can move from company to company and make money, and not be tied to some silly seniority list. I have my flight bennies, I don't have to be part of some collective dead union job. I can go from company to company with my skills.

You? Not so much.

LOL

Oh Lord, it's hard...to be humble...

 

[cleardirect]

Don't recall the last time we had to have a resolution on the president of the union that he must tell the membership where is he going and who he is speaking to. Hey Gary, what about all the transparnecy, you LIED to all us in you campaign promise. We have had enough of these compass correction idiots and their lies. Just wait till we see what's next!!!!

More hypocrisy.

Can you honestly say that you knew why Cleary was at all times and knew who he was meeting with?

 

[luvthe9]

More hypocrisy.

Can you honestly say that you knew why Cleary was at all times and knew who he was meeting with?

Yes,. but still don't think you quite get it yet, Hummel and his compass correction gang are going to screw all of us, east and west, Cabaittoni gave the company so much when he gave away the grievances and thats the start..

 

[BoeingBoy]

You seem to be confused, 9-piece. Too much time in the sun???

Jim