July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[traderjake]

All you had to do is say, "Yes sir, I am in favor of giving away more scope!"

Shouldn't you be posting this on the American board?

 

[Phoenix]

Aircraft over 81 seats – Category C Aircraft
Category C aircraft are in Group 1 for pay
Large number of 82 to 118 seat aircraft with substandard pay
Flown by mainline pilots, but at substandard pay rates
Can operate up to 220 based on today’s fleet size
Ability to replace many higher paying aircraft (B737, A319) at $172 per hour with EMB-190 size aircraft at $116 per hour. No big deal, right?

There is no need for them to park 320s. They can be replacement a/c for the aging AA FLEET types. Garry, the new NAC, didn't mention any scope language regarding type or tail numbers, hence the apparent Garry strategy would allow transfer of LCC tails to AA with new RJs for LCC.

Loose language in a contract has ALWAYS been used by the company for their advantage.

But have no fear there are plenty of ham fisted pilots that are all too eager to cut off their nose to spite their face. If they can't cash in the lottery ticket at least they can help push their basement wages of the industry lower.

 

[Phoenix]

Once again reading something into my comment that I did not make.

I never said I was in favor of giving it away. What I stated was reality. It is going away no matter what we do. Know when you have lost and move on. Fight the fit someplace we can gain. Like wages or scheduling.

Just like you don't have to like the Nicolau or agree with it or be in favor of it. But that is reality. You can accept it and move on or continue to lose.

Like I said the key to winning is knowing when you are losing. Accepting the Nicolau moves us down the road to winning the war.

OK, say it your way. "Yes sir, I am not in any way shape or form opposed to giving away scope, and I desperately want you to agree with me so that we can succeed."

 

[Phoenix]

Shouldn't you be posting this on the American board?

If you mean to say that you are the only reader on the US board AND that you have supported scope errosion already for years... Then I am not yet persuaded of the former but am not surprised at the latter.

 

[cleardirect]

Once again we find ourselves in difficult and challenging times. We have new union leadership unfamiliar with dealing with our current situation and we have a management team that is willing to negotiate with anyone but their own employees. All concerned seemed content to expect the US Airways pilots to sit back and wait for these events to unfold. Once again we find ourselves as a pilot group sitting in the midst of a recipe for disaster. We do have options and those options have limited and reasonable risks for protecting our pilots.

We know we cannot count on the APA or Doug Parker, his management team, or US Airways legal and labor relations to protect our interests. It is, and will be, up to us to protect the US Airways pilots’ interests and we feel that we must utilize every ounce of energy and leverage available to deliver the returns that our pilots all deserve.

Lots of tough talk from CLT again. Could it be that CLT is just to stupid to learn. Would these dumb asses be considering another illegal job action? These are the same phrase they used last time leading up to the safety first campaign. Limited and reasonable risk? What risk is there in staying within the law?

Using every ounce of energy and leverage they have. What do you think he means by that? With the injunction in place and a president that is a little less than crazy, the malcontents will stand out and easily be dismissed. So go ahead and follow CLT out the door.

BTW if you change APA to usapa in the first sentence second paragraph I would agree completely.

We know we cannot count on the APA or Doug Parker, his management team, or US Airways legal and labor relations to protect our interests.

We know we cannot count on usapa or Doug Parker, his management team, or US Airways legal (usapa legal) and labor relations to protect our interests.

 

[traderjake]

If you mean to say that you are the only reader on the US board AND that you have supported scope errosion already for years... Then I am not yet persuaded of the former but am not surprised at the latter.

It's means they're the ones that have any say in the matter.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I forgot to use smiley faces.

 

[nic4us]

There is no need for them to park 320s. They can be replacement a/c for the aging AA FLEET types. Garry, the new NAC, didn't mention any scope language regarding type or tail numbers, hence the apparent Garry strategy would allow transfer of LCC tails to AA with new RJs for LCC.

Loose language in a contract has ALWAYS been used by the company for their advantage.

But have no fear there are plenty of ham fisted pilots that are all too eager to cut off their nose to spite their face. If they can't cash in the lottery ticket at least they can help push their basement wages of the industry lower.

You must be talking about the east here.

After all...what are you complaining about....the company takes your aging 737 fleet and replaces it with 190s and that $118/hr is the coveted raise due to attrition you all have been whining about for the past 5 years....it is not the basement wage of $125 you get now but it is close...

Look at it this way.....you wanted to be paid less than an f/o at every other major airline to protect your non-consequential attrition....well...looks like the company and the APA just might grant your request.

..and..while I would not call it a lottery ticket...the Nic..which moved every single east pilot up the list will still be used for any seniority integration between AMR and LCC pilots.

...one more thing...the scab union has guaranteed their place on the floor begging for scraps...so you have zero credibility trying to push blame on the West. If we get hosed in this deal it would be because Bradford and the van scabs crossed the line and the east brought us all down to the level of managements cabin boys.

 

[Phoenix]

It's means they're the ones that have any say in the matter.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I forgot to use smiley faces.

Don't stress yourself. Nothing will change without a vote and you will get your chance to vote "yes" to give away more.

 

[traderjake]

Nothing will change without a vote ...

.......by the American pilots.

 

[luvthe9]

And plenty of A-320s and B-737s ordered to replace them.

Driver...

Yes on the AA side did you forget the 7 year fence?, Maybe you will enjoy being the new american Eagle.

 

[Phoenix]

.......by the American pilots.

If Garry figures out a way to stand asside and allow AA pilots to deny you the opportunity to join with them in giving LCC pilots forced paycuts or other givenacks, he will have exceededed the prowess of the punk 13 that denied you the opportunity to agree to your pension giveaway.

I can only imagine your despair after being unable to cast a yes vote, twice, on such important matters. If that happens I will personally pay for your first visit to your psychologist.

 

[luvthe9]

Wow, the letters just keep on coming in.
[background=transparent]Well, union events are unfolding exactly as we predicted with Hummel, Stein, Dugstad, and Weidner in control-- or being controlled by the Rowe crowd, PHX, or management. We don't have enough pilots here at USAirways with balls enough to even question what they're doing even though our careers are about to be crapped on for good. Blatant violations of constitutional procedure, secret meetings with the enemy (Kirby), committee heads with the most experience being terminated on a weekly basis, etc., etc. I'm loving the new "transparency". I can see right through every one of these bastards! [/background]

[background=transparent]So, where do we go from here? We have too many sheep among us who are happy to be lead off the cliff. They're either too stupid or indifferent to do anything about what's happening. Aside from calling and emailing my displeasure to the traitors in power in our union, what can I do to stop the momentum these clowns have? I wish I had more faith in our fellow USAPA members but the choices members made in the elections--if they even bothered to vote--shows the true nature or thought process of the union as a whole. I'm disgusted, pissed, and ready for a fight to the end. Can we begin a recall of Hummel based on the info we have? [/background]
[background=transparent]Geez, I'd better get to the gym before I blow a gasket…….[/background]​

[background=transparent]A Disgruntled Pilot but still in the figh.t [/background][background=transparent]Dear disgrunteld pilot, you have nothing to worry about we have a good plan, we might even be putting Doug Mowery (LOA93 architect) Menear and Rowe on the the NAC. Also Caibattoni and Menear were spotted in the Swarthmore public library reading Acheiving Goals and Completing Tasks so now that they are experts you should not have to be concerned. All will be fine.[/background]

 

[nevergiveup]

You must be talking about the east here.

After all...what are you complaining about....the company takes your aging 737 fleet and replaces it with 190s and that $118/hr is the coveted raise due to attrition you all have been whining about for the past 5 years....it is not the basement wage of $125 you get now but it is close...

Look at it this way.....you wanted to be paid less than an f/o at every other major airline to protect your non-consequential attrition....well...looks like the company and the APA just might grant your request.

..and..while I would not call it a lottery ticket...the Nic..which moved every single east pilot up the list will still be used for any seniority integration between AMR and LCC pilots.

...one more thing...the scab union has guaranteed their place on the floor begging for scraps...so you have zero credibility trying to push blame on the West. If we get hosed in this deal it would be because Bradford and the van scabs crossed the line and the east brought us all down to the level of managements cabin boys.

The golden child has spoken!

 

[Res Judicata]

Wow, the letters just keep on coming in.
[background=transparent]Well, union events are unfolding exactly as we predicted with Hummel, Stein, Dugstad, and Weidner in control-- or being controlled by the Rowe crowd, PHX, or management. We don't have enough pilots here at USAirways with balls enough to even question what they're doing even though our careers are about to be crapped on for good. Blatant violations of constitutional procedure, secret meetings with the enemy (Kirby), committee heads with the most experience being terminated on a weekly basis, etc., etc. I'm loving the new "transparency". I can see right through every one of these bastards! [/background]

[background=transparent]So, where do we go from here? We have too many sheep among us who are happy to be lead off the cliff. They're either too stupid or indifferent to do anything about what's happening. Aside from calling and emailing my displeasure to the traitors in power in our union, what can I do to stop the momentum these clowns have? I wish I had more faith in our fellow USAPA members but the choices members made in the elections--if they even bothered to vote--shows the true nature or thought process of the union as a whole. I'm disgusted, pissed, and ready for a fight to the end. Can we begin a recall of Hummel based on the info we have? [/background]
[background=transparent]Geez, I'd better get to the gym before I blow a gasket…….[/background]​

[background=transparent]A Disgruntled Pilot but still in the figh.t [/background][background=transparent]Dear disgrunteld pilot, you have nothing to worry about we have a good plan, we might even be putting Doug Mowery (LOA93 architect) Menear and Rowe on the the NAC. Also Caibattoni and Menear were spotted in the Swarthmore public library reading Acheiving Goals and Completing Tasks so now that they are experts you should not have to be concerned. All will be fine.[/background]

Someone get this whining scab a fresh tampon and a reminder that "majority rules" and everything is negotiable like crew meals.

Might always makes right....remember?

 

[EastCheats]

Blatant violations of constitutional procedure, secret meetings with the enemy (Kirby), committee heads with the most experience being terminated on a weekly basis, etc., etc. I'm loving the new "transparency". Can we begin a recall of Hummel based on the info we have?

I say why not? Recall him on the grounds of the constitutional procedures violations
you cited.

It's par for the course, recalls, do-overs, re-run elections, appeals. Anything to keep from moving forward.

I'm along for the ride anyway and frankly, could give a damn anymore.