July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[A320 Driver]

The TA states in sect IV A that the pilot group will be integrated in accordance with Alpa merger policy.

Alpa merger policy, on page two, states that the PID is established on the earlier of the date on which the executive council determminnes there is a merger or the date on which the president agrees with the determination of all involved MEC's that ther is a merger.

In other words, 2005.

Thank you Ames for pointing that out. I'm sure I missed them on the other 4 mergers.

Driver...

 

[isvlives2]

"ALPA and USAPA are terrible"

Do you think APA will be any better?

Never been represented by the APA. If I had to guess they will try and treat us just like the TWA pilots.

 

[signals]

Yo, moderators,

It's August 3.

Just sayin'

Meep-beep!

 

[signals]

Never been represented by the APA. If I had to guess they will try and treat us just like the TWA pilots.

Why would their majority want to be at the bottom of the totempole?

 

[cleardirect]

Never been represented by the APA. If I had to guess they will try and treat us just like the TWA pilots.

That is still damn sight better than usapa has treated the west pilots.

 

[nic4us]

Sadly, the west furloughed pilots now serving on the east are slotted BEHIND third listers. The only new hires they are senior to are those that were hired AFTER the former furloghees went to the east. That is the main reason that so few former AWA pilots took that deal.

It is also in direct contrast with the language and intent of the TA.

 

[isvlives2]

That is still damn sight better than usapa has treated the west pilots.

ALPA allowed TWA pilots to be stapled on the bottom of AA pilot list. Are you saying being stapled to the bottom of American is better than something USAPA has already done to the west?

 

[767jetz]

What is the PID for the UAL/CAL merger?

What date was ALPA merger policy changed? Before or after? If changed after the PID I don't think it will apply. They should have to use the policy that was in place at the time.

It was changed after the DL/NW merger, but well before the UA/CO merger was announced. I don't know the exact PID but LOS was added to ALPA merger policy prior.

 

[767jetz]

Congrats on the tentative agreement.

Do you think it will pass or get the old turn down the first offer vote?


Also, the east is ranked on the Nic in the manner they are, not because they would not come off of DOH, but because Nic gave them a fair integration regardless of their stubborn attitude.

I agree. But the east also did not give the arbitrator any options or ideas to perhaps capture attrition in alternate yet suitable manner, nor give any credit for LOS. Perhaps they would have been happier with the results if they had actually negotiated instead of making demands and then stonewalling.

WRT our AIP (not a TA yet until the MEC's see final language and approve it for membership ratification), IMO it will pass similar to Delta. Probably around 60%. There are so many differences in work rules and scope between Legacy CO and Legacy UA that there are many different lines in the sand.

This was a very hard fought contract with much drama and political arm twisting behind the scenes, going all the way to the White House and ALPA National, and virtually leading to a release by the NMB and a threat of a strike. (We had a 99% strike vote with 95% (+/- 1%?)) voter participation. So intentions were very high. I doubt our MEC's will put a turd out for a vote. The devil will be in the details, but I think it will pass.

 

[767jetz]

Do both sides have furloughs?

I think there were a small number of CO pilots furloughed at the PID, maybe 100 or so, that were recalled shortly after. UA has over 1400 furloughed, but about 400 of them were already on some other kind of leave like military. Basically it was 1000 active pilots. Many have been offered recalls to the CO side, with full recall rights back to the UA side depending on how the SLI works out. They also went to CO at whatever their pay rate was when they were furloughed, so no first year pay at CO for them. Believe it or not, we actually had a senior 747 captain take a voluntary furlough at UA, then decided to take a recall to a 737 fo position at CO at his 747 captain pay. He is currently the highest paid fo at CO! I don't know the exact numbers, a vast majority of the furloughs have either returned to the CO side for now, or have bypassed recall.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

The only constant for all USAirways Pilots has been 7 years of stagnation.

LOA 93:

Pay-Vacation-Retirement-Sick Leave-Disability. Worst in the industry.

USAPA showed them all right.

Bottom line is not one USAirways pilot has or will genuinely prosper (except maybe those at the FPL/Stipend trough) as a result of changing unions in a futile attempt to force Date of Hire.

I forgot though, did Mike Cleary succeed Yasser Arafat?

Disagree, many have prospered, my LOS , today, yesterday and moving forward offers me and many others better working conditions and pay rather than a new contract and years of stagnation just like the days gone by of the PSA base closures and MD-80, rets, it will happen again, only this time it will be PHX!, You got lucky!

 

[N924PS]

Disagree, many have prospered, my LOS , today, yesterday and moving forward offers me and many others better working conditions and pay rather than a new contract and years of stagnation just like the days gone by of the PSA base closures and MD-80, rets, it will happen again, only this time it will be PHX!, You got lucky!

Few have prospered since USAPA took the reins.

A few have upgraded to Captain at LOA 93 Captain rates. They could have been flying as F/O's with a pay raise and still gotten their upgrade under Nicolau in just about the same time frame.

The Age 65 attrition numbers have been presented and simply do not support the massive upgrades that you believe are coming.

Please tell me when you expect to achieve the better pay and working conditions you cite in the first sentence of your post. Did McKee tell you they're right around the corner?

PHX may well close or shrink, but ultimately, those displaced pilots will slide into their rightful Nicolau positions in CLT, PHL, DCA. Especially if the AA merger comes to fruition.

By the way, the Super 80's were not parked until after 9-11. That would be 13 years after the PSA USAir merger.

And if you think spending the last ten years of one's career under LOA93 is lucky perhaps you need an appointment with Dr. Lynne Fenton....

 

[Beancounter]

Disagree, many have prospered, my LOS , today, yesterday and moving forward offers me and many others better working conditions and pay rather than a new contract and years of stagnation just like the days gone by of the PSA base closures and MD-80, rets, it will happen again, only this time it will be PHX!, You got lucky!

You know MM, I tell my friends at places like Alaska about east guys like you and they just don't believe guys like you exist. Why would someone not just be stuck in the bottom of the barrel, but revel in it? Hope you don't mind me copying you're post and forwarding in on to some of them. It'll help them to better understand why we're the lowest paid pilots in the industry with no contract in sight. You guys complain AWA pulled down the industry in the past. I think the biggest damage AWA did to the industry was merging with and therefore saving US Airways, because now you guys are pulling down the industry.

Bean

 

[Move2CLT]

You know MM, I tell my friends at places like Alaska about east guys like you and they just don't believe guys like you exist. Why would someone not just be stuck in the bottom of the barrel, but revel in it? Hope you don't mind me copying you're post and forwarding in on to some of them. It'll help them to better understand why we're the lowest paid pilots in the industry with no contract in sight. You guys complain AWA pulled down the industry in the past. I think the biggest damage AWA did to the industry was merging with and therefore saving US Airways, because now you guys are pulling down the industry.

Bean

Great post.

Can someone draw Mutation a picture so he understands what was just posted?

 

[N924PS]

I think the biggest damage AWA did to the industry was merging with and therefore saving US Airways, because now you guys are pulling down the industry.

Bean

No Bean.

The industry has passed us by on their way back up to the top.