July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

"WTF did you EVER personally do (besides NOTHING) for any such absurdly inflated, combined "seniority" position to be "awarded" to you?" 😉

What is it that you personally "brought to the merger" besides yourself?

What I brought has 175,000 valuable reasons why the furloughed scab wants to steal my position.

In the future, my position will carry even more "reasons" why I am not letting the east scabs steal my position.

Oh, and Nic put me behind hundreds of east pilots who brought considerably less "reasons" to the merger.


Further, my LOS far outweighs many who the scab union would like to have leepfrog me and my fellow West pilots in the wholesale scab operation that is usapa.


One more thing...you consistently lie in your post about the age, status, pay, longevity, and seniority of the two groups.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

What part of binding arbitration do you not get? The binding part, or the arbitration part?

 

[EastUS1]

What I brought has 175,000 valuable reasons why the furloughed scab wants to steal my position.

In the future, my position will carry even more "reasons" why I am not letting the east scabs steal my position.

Oh, and Nic put me behind hundreds of east pilots who brought considerably less "reasons" to the merger.


Further, my LOS far outweighs many who the scab union would like to have leepfrog me and my fellow West pilots in the wholesale scab operation that is usapa.


One more thing...you consistently lie in your post about the age, status, pay, longevity, and seniority of the two groups.

"In the future, my position will carry even more "reasons"..." My oh My!...Another clarivoyant at work....and one with a clearly special place in this world as well. 😉

"....you consistently lie in your post about the age, status, pay, longevity, and seniority of the two groups." Really?..Then you'll have no trouble providing a ready example of that....? 😉

So, to sum up, (and without bothering with the now-standard, martyred/Waaah! portions): In answer to: "What is it that you personally "brought to the merger" besides yourself?" the only even slightly tangible thing you can actually note within this latest is your LOS...? Think about that......

 

[BoeingBoy]

the only even slightly tangible thing you can actually note within this latest is your LOS...? Think about that......

I have and as usual your argument misses an essential point, which isn 't surprising since that point undermines your entire argument...

Every west pilot, just as every east pilot, brought a seniority number which ranked him/her among his peers in the west or east as the case may be. You would like to see the west lose their position among the combined group - their seniority - so that your east peers can gain. All the west wants is for everyone, east and west, to maintain the position among the combined group that they had among their own group at the time of the merger. Your preference is to give the west a lower position while giving the east a higher position. Nothing but stealing from the west to give to the east. But that's been your preference all along, to make up east pilot's lackluster careers by taking from the west. You just try to make robbing Peter to pay Paul sound better by wrapping it in "principle" ribbons and "pay your dues, sonny" bows.

Jim

 

[EastUS1]

But that's been your preference all along, to make up east pilot's lackluster careers by taking from the west. You just try to make robbing Peter to pay Paul sound better by wrapping it in "principle" ribbons and "pay your dues, sonny" bows.

So then ex-east pilot; Your now long expired career was "lackluster"?..I see. You've my sympathy for that then.

"Every west pilot, just as every east pilot, brought a seniority number which ranked him/her among his peers in the west or east as the case may be." Correct. Where we seperate is with the fantasy that any new hire/anyone is properly a "peer" to any person who's worked well over a decade more of continuous service to this "cluster".

"...by wrapping it in "principle" ribbons.."? It comes as no surprise that you clearly, can't even imagine anyone having any actual principles, and thus; you can sadly only assume that forwarding any such amounts to conniving bs and/or pathetic contrivance...which I'll cheerfully leave in your capable hands instead. Ummm..speaking of which: Have you been "strappen in" to a batch lot of "military cockpits" lately? 😉

What's your honest objection to the "pay your dues, sonny" concept?...Other than the fact that you were a huge personal fan of not wanting to do so yourself in the Piedmont/US merger? 😉

 

[traderjake]

What's your honest objection to the "pay your dues, sonny" concept

It's based on the fallacy that longevity is seniority.

If you were the last pilot hired at USAir for ten years are you anymore senior at year ten than year one?

The answer is no, you have ten years longevity but are still the junior pilot at the airline.

You have gained zero seniority in ten years.

Seniority is your position on a seniority list, that's why it's called a seniority number.

 

[nevergiveup]

It's based on the fallacy that longevity is seniority.

If you were the last pilot hired at USAir for ten years are you anymore senior at year ten than year one?

The answer is no, you have ten years longevity but are still the junior pilot at the airline.

You have gained zero seniority in ten years.

Seniority is your position on a seniority list, that's why it's called a seniority number.

If Piedmont was merged into mainline, would you support their senior pilot as being no. 1 or 2? For what reason should a west pilot be able to steal the east attrition? This is all why the ninth said that a contract is, "specualtive at best." Permanent fences are the best answer.

 

[Freighterguynow]

I think hpretread and boing boy need to just go homo and move to Miami.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Ps Jims been out of the game for 5 years and doesn't know shinola.

 

[nycbusdriver]

What part of binding arbitration do you not get? The binding part, or the arbitration part?

Is that you mantra?

Or, maybe, Tourette's?

 

[cleardirect]

If Piedmont was merged into mainline, would you support their senior pilot as being no. 1 or 2? For what reason should a west pilot be able to steal the east attrition? This is all why the ninth said that a contract is, "specualtive at best." Permanent fences are the best answer.

Does Piedmont fly airbus or 757/767, 330? Nicolau separated the list by equipment. So no Piedmont pilots would not be #1 or 2.

Once again if you are so concerned about attrition you guys should have given up on the DOH/LOS dream and made a deal for attrition. But instead of compromise you wanted everything. The arbitrator handed you a compromise yet you still can't accept it. Besides that east attrition is 40 seats a year. You guys are paying $2.5 per seat for.

Would you still support permanent fences if Parker decided to keep the east at min block hours and open a new west base in Florida and add all new flying and aircraft to that base?

I thought you guys were big union guys. With separate ops management can whipsaw the group. He offers the flying to whoever does it the cheapest. Since you guys are the cheapest I guess that makes you the Ho's. Enjoy that B scale.

 

[Metroyet]

Does Piedmont fly airbus or 757/767, 330? Nicolau separated the list by equipment. So no Piedmont pilots would not be #1 or 2.

Once again if you are so concerned about attrition you guys should have given up on the DOH/LOS dream and made a deal for attrition. But instead of compromise you wanted everything. The arbitrator handed you a compromise yet you still can't accept it. Besides that east attrition is 40 seats a year. You guys are paying $2.5 per seat for.

Would you still support permanent fences if Parker decided to keep the east at min block hours and open a new west base in Florida and add all new flying and aircraft to that base?

I thought you guys were big union guys. With separate ops management can whipsaw the group. He offers the flying to whoever does it the cheapest. Since you guys are the cheapest I guess that makes you the Ho's. Enjoy that B scale.

Calling the East's compensation "B" scale is generous at best. Delta FO rates just blew the doors off of an East CAPTAIN rate. Sounds like Alaska is close to a deal as well. Capt rates in the $225/hr neighborhood for narrow body. If Alaska closes their deal they and Delta will be on their second contract since the inception of USTUPID. USTUPID is 100% incapable of delivering any type of contract what so ever. The pilots of US Air have never been any further away from any kind of contractual improvements than they are today...with no hope of that changing. Ever.

The West pilots are entitiled to separate section 6 negotiations. USCABA refuses to allow them the most fundamental rights afforded to a group of unionised workers. Frankly, if this were coal mining or long shoremen, there would have been a massacre by now.

 

[Hate2fly]

The dream of getting a contract from Team Tempe is such a joke! Do you realize that AWA has always had the worst pay and working conditions since 1983? Nothing has changed. Nothing will change until there is a corporate transaction. Get rid of AWA management and the industry standard contract will appear like majic. AWA has always been the lowest of the low and continues to run this airline.

Hate

 

[Claxon]

The dream of getting a contract from Team Tempe is such a joke! Do you realize that AWA has always had the worst pay and working conditions since 1983? Nothing has changed. Nothing will change until there is a corporate transaction. Get rid of AWA management and the industry standard contract will appear like majic. AWA has always been the lowest of the low and continues to run this airline.

Hate

The Frank Machine has dragged the industry down forever. Now the Franke Disciples think they will convince the Franke trained handler to give them industry parity. It will never happen, it has never happened in the past. AWA has always been a drag on the industry, and Parker will continue to throw his disciples small scraps just to keep insurrections from breaking out. They will never be given a parity contract, and will turn on the eastern pilots before they turn on the Franke Management. It is how they have been used from the beginning. They have always gone against their own from the beginning of time. Franke specifically hired those who are prone to have anti labor sentiments, and will never act in a cohesive union manner. They are like a pack of dogs, always fighting to get a scrap, or advantage over another. You will never be able to act in concert with them. Never give them an opportunity to scab on you, as they will in a heartbeat. Nic4us and cleardirect are exactly the type Franke hired for this.

 

[nevergiveup]

Does Piedmont fly airbus or 757/767, 330? Nicolau separated the list by equipment. So no Piedmont pilots would not be #1 or 2.

Once again if you are so concerned about attrition you guys should have given up on the DOH/LOS dream and made a deal for attrition. But instead of compromise you wanted everything. The arbitrator handed you a compromise yet you still can't accept it. Besides that east attrition is 40 seats a year. You guys are paying $2.5 per seat for.

Would you still support permanent fences if Parker decided to keep the east at min block hours and open a new west base in Florida and add all new flying and aircraft to that base?

I thought you guys were big union guys. With separate ops management can whipsaw the group. He offers the flying to whoever does it the cheapest. Since you guys are the cheapest I guess that makes you the Ho's. Enjoy that B scale.

Let the west keep what they brought to the table, let the eaet keep what they brought to the table.

 

[Res Judicata]

Let the west keep what they brought to the table, let the eaet keep what they brought to the table.

You brought a chapter 7 airline and 1879 FURLOUGHEES. I'd love nothing more than for you to keep what you brought.