July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[HPearlyretiree]

• THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS. Remember those words? They were the words used to explain how a few (4) ALPA LEC Reps, in secret and without a majority of pilots to support them was able to work their magic in secret to give us LOA 93.
  
  Back then, the company offered us a better contract. But these masters of intellect decided among themselves that they knew better and rejected that contact against the advice of our lawyers and the rest of the LEC. What did the company do? They offered us an even more odious contract. The geniuses we had representing us said, "Hey, you aren't supposed to do that. You offer a contract, we reject it and you offer us a better contract. That's how the game is played!" But the company had an ace up it's sleeve. It knew that the end game was that if the company went back into bankruptcy without an agreed to pilot contract, the judge would have to pick from two choices under the then 1113E Bankruptcy Rules. One was to accept whatever the company offerred, make no changes to it and impose it on the pilots. The other was to decide to just liquidate the company. After these wonder boys we had realized that they had fallen into a trap of their own making, they 'allowed' us to vote on the odious contract we have today known as LOA 93. How much money have we lost? Each pilot here has lost hundreds of thousand of dollars because the LOA 943 that we have vs the one we could have had, and how about those quality of life work rules we now work under?
  
  So once again, the end justifies the means. Against the USAPA Constitution and By-Laws, the very same people are once again huddled in secret, deciding the future for the rest of us. They may be able to fix some of the problems that the merger would bring us or they may make it worse. But whatever happens, it's also how it happened that matters because we will never know if our NAC Committee, along with the BPR and the other Officers, working in unison could have made it better. What we will have is whatever is done in secret by a few people.
  
  The person I am most disappointed with is Steve Bradford. I believed in the vision that Steve gave us when selling USAPA as an alternative to ALPA. A union of transparency, of oneness, a union of the pilots and for the pilots and one of strict rules to guide us. One that had a duly elected Board that would direct the committees and work collectively for the pilots here. Instead we have a President that has kept vital information from the NAC and the BPR, all against the rule of law.
  
  By his own silence at what is happening, Bradford is condoning the behavior of Gary Hummel and Dave Ciabattoni to act unilaterally and secretly. The firing of our Negotiating Committee Chairman because he objected to this behavior and at the demand of Scott Kirby should have caused Bradford to stand up and say, "Not again and especially not with me involved. To those that voted for Bradford because you believed that he would guard against this behavior, I now ask you to ask him to explain. Or will he tell you "the end justifies the means."
  
  We will have to await for the details of these secret meetings. Will we ever know if we could have done better? Probably not. They are keeping it a secret just in case.
  
  Sometimes you just have to shake your head and say to yourself. 'Maybe we deserve what we get because we keep making the same mistakes and expect a different outcome.' Wait, isn't that the definition of.......! Oh well, you know the

Awww, your sham union created to get out of the agreed upon binding arbitration screwed you over? Like everyone said it would for the last few years?

Too bad. You wasted all those years where you could have a contract, greedily chasing down a way to wuss out of your obligations. I'd say "live and learn", but the entitlement east never learns.

 

[traderjake]

No matter how many distracters are put out there, the issue is still scope and there are plenty of MD80s that are gonna be parked and replaced.

After years of trying to steal jobs from the West now your job is threatened and there's nothing you can do about it.

Karma's a b*tch.

 

[Res Judicata]

I feel sorry for you.

Thanks for your concern. If I've learned anything it's I can always count on an Altruistic Easthole. However bad it is for you now, just know that you deserve it 10X worse.

 

[luvthe9]

I don't think anyone is saying the AA term sheet is proposing SELLING A320s to get 195s. An accusation like that would be a red herring trying to muddy the water.

No matter how many distracters are put out there, the issue is still scope and there are plenty of MD80s that are gonna be parked and replaced.

Geez, not proposing but have the ability to replace 319's for 195.s

 

[luvthe9]

Awww, your sham union created to get out of the agreed upon binding arbitration screwed you over? Like everyone said it would for the last few years?

Too bad. You wasted all those years where you could have a contract, greedily chasing down a way to wuss out of your obligations. I'd say "live and learn", but the entitlement east never learns.

Just one of those ASU wonders that's knows everthing right "November Bravo" you just go save the children.

 

[Phoenix]

After years of trying to steal jobs from the West now your job is threatened and there's nothing you can do about it.

Karma's a b*tch.

The likes of you have threatened and destroyed jobs junior to you for years. No one is holding their breath for you to repent.

 

[Phoenix]

Thanks for your concern. If I've learned anything it's I can always count on an Altruistic Easthole. However bad it is for you now, just know that you deserve it 10X worse.

You are welcome. I still feel sorry for you but not for Uhaul. He doesn't actually believe any of his rhetoric.

 

[A320 Driver]

No matter how many distracters are put out there, the issue is still scope and there are plenty of MD80s that are gonna be parked and replaced.

And plenty of A-320s and B-737s ordered to replace them.

Driver...

 

[Phoenix]

And plenty of A-320s and B-737s ordered to replace them.

Driver...

So then why are you and the company opposed to removing scope protections according to hull type? Doesn't add up.

 

[traderjake]

The likes of you have threatened and destroyed jobs junior to you for years. No one is holding their breath for you to repent.

Two goofy smiley faces, now it's clear what you're trying to say.

 

[Phoenix]

Two goofy smiley faces, now it's clear what you're trying to say.

 

[cleardirect]

So then why are you and the company opposed to removing scope protections according to hull type? Doesn't add up.

If you, Cleary and DiOrio are so smart and have somehow found the leverage to keep the scope please keep it.

This is the example of why we don't have a contract. Demanding unobtaionable things in negotiations gets you nothing.

Just like PBS. You can shake you fist, stomp your feet even hold your breath. You are never going to get line bidding. The APA has to find 260 million in give backs. Scope is an expensive piece that the company wants.

So hold your breath attack everyone that does not agree with you. Make up some crazy story to scare the masses 880 90 rjs. Doesn't matter. You are not going to get it. The APA is going to agree to it and by virtue of the usapa mantra (majority rules) we lose scope protection.

The key to winning is knowing when you are losing. You guys have not figured that out yet.

 

[luvthe9]

I don't think anyone is saying the AA term sheet is proposing SELLING A320s to get 195s. An accusation like that would be a red herring trying to muddy the water.

No matter how many distracters are put out there, the issue is still scope and there are plenty of MD80s that are gonna be parked and replaced.

Aircraft over 81 seats – Category C Aircraft
Category C aircraft are in Group 1 for pay
Large number of 82 to 118 seat aircraft with substandard pay
Flown by mainline pilots, but at substandard pay rates
Can operate up to 220 based on today’s fleet size
Ability to replace many higher paying aircraft (B737, A319) at $172 per hour with EMB-190 size aircraft at $116 per hour. No big deal, right?

 

[Phoenix]

If you, Cleary and DiOrio are so smart and have somehow found the leverage to keep the scope please keep it.

This is the example of why we don't have a contract. Demanding unobtaionable things in negotiations gets you nothing.

Just like PBS. You can shake you fist, stomp your feet even hold your breath. You are never going to get line bidding. The APA has to find 260 million in give backs. Scope is an expensive piece that the company wants.

So hold your breath attack everyone that does not agree with you. Make up some crazy story to scare the masses 880 90 rjs. Doesn't matter. You are not going to get it. The APA is going to agree to it and by virtue of the usapa mantra (majority rules) we lose scope protection.

The key to winning is knowing when you are losing. You guys have not figured that out yet.

Why such a long post? All you had to do is say, "Yes sir, I am in favor of giving away more scope!"

Now, wasn't that easy?

 

[cleardirect]

Why such a long post? All you had to do is say, "Yes sir, I am in favor of giving away more scope!"

Now, wasn't that easy?

Once again reading something into my comment that I did not make.

I never said I was in favor of giving it away. What I stated was reality. It is going away no matter what we do. Know when you have lost and move on. Fight the fit someplace we can gain. Like wages or scheduling.

Just like you don't have to like the Nicolau or agree with it or be in favor of it. But that is reality. You can accept it and move on or continue to lose.

Like I said the key to winning is knowing when you are losing. Accepting the Nicolau moves us down the road to winning the war.