July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

Wow, the letters just keep on coming in.
[background=transparent]Well, union events are unfolding exactly as we predicted with Hummel, Stein, Dugstad, and Weidner in control-- or being controlled by the Rowe crowd, PHX, or management. We don't have enough pilots here at USAirways with balls enough to even question what they're doing even though our careers are about to be crapped on for good. Blatant violations of constitutional procedure, secret meetings with the enemy (Kirby), committee heads with the most experience being terminated on a weekly basis, etc., etc. I'm loving the new "transparency". I can see right through every one of these bastards! [/background]

[background=transparent]So, where do we go from here? We have too many sheep among us who are happy to be lead off the cliff. They're either too stupid or indifferent to do anything about what's happening. Aside from calling and emailing my displeasure to the traitors in power in our union, what can I do to stop the momentum these clowns have? I wish I had more faith in our fellow USAPA members but the choices members made in the elections--if they even bothered to vote--shows the true nature or thought process of the union as a whole. I'm disgusted, pissed, and ready for a fight to the end. Can we begin a recall of Hummel based on the info we have? [/background]
[background=transparent]Geez, I'd better get to the gym before I blow a gasket…….[/background]​

[background=transparent]A Disgruntled Pilot but still in the figh.t [/background][background=transparent]Dear disgrunteld pilot, you have nothing to worry about we have a good plan, we might even be putting Doug Mowery (LOA93 architect) Menear and Rowe on the the NAC. Also Caibattoni and Menear were spotted in the Swarthmore public library reading Acheiving Goals and Completing Tasks so now that they are experts you should not have to be concerned. All will be fine.[/background]

What are you guys complaining about? It is that exact attitude that got usapa elected and Cleary allowed to run without oversight. Now you complain because east pilots are acting like east pilots?

Have you figured out yet that it was not ALPA but east pilots that caused and are causing all of you problems?

 

[cleardirect]

Someone get this whining scab a fresh tampon and a reminder that "majority rules" and everything is negotiable like crew meals.

Might always makes right....remember?

Yep. It seems that majority rules only when certain people are in the majority.

6-5 is a majority. When CLT and PHl win every is as is should be. When CLT and PHL lose 6-5 the world is evil and needs to be changed and only those boys understand.

Hypocrites. Stop whining.

That APA is going to treat you better than you have treated the west.

 

[Move2CLT]

You are welcome. I still feel sorry for you but not for Uhaul. He doesn't actually believe any of his rhetoric.

I'll try not to lose any sleep. East scabs tend to not worry me much.

 

[Beancounter]

Okay, here's a video for all you east pilots that stood by while Cleary did the same type of things you're complaining about now:

http://youtu.be/SMwXPueu-RM

If that's to harsh, here's a gentler vision:

http://youtu.be/DksSPZTZES0

Do you need some tissue?

Bean

 

[Move2CLT]

You are welcome. I still feel sorry for you but not for Uhaul. He doesn't actually believe any of his rhetoric.

I'll try not to lose any sleep. East scabs tend to not worry me much when it comes to the crap that spews out their pie hole.

 

[Claxon]

Once again reading something into my comment that I did not make.

I never said I was in favor of giving it away. What I stated was reality. It is going away no matter what we do. Know when you have lost and move on. Fight the fit someplace we can gain. Like wages or scheduling.

Just like you don't have to like the Nicolau or agree with it or be in favor of it. But that is reality. You can accept it and move on or continue to lose.

Like I said the key to winning is knowing when you are losing. Accepting the Nicolau moves us down the road to winning the war.

The westerner finally figured out that you have to accept it, and nobody can force you. A lightbulb moment for a particularly dim individual..........

 

[Claxon]

I'll try not to lose any sleep. East scabs tend to not worry me much when it comes to the crap that spews out their pie hole.

Much like your move to CLT. A year now. What stupidity. It will be many years more. Maybe never.

 

[A320 Driver]

Wow, the letters just keep on coming in.
[background=transparent]Well, union events are unfolding exactly as we predicted with Hummel, Stein, Dugstad, and Weidner in control-- or being controlled by the Rowe crowd, PHX, or management. We don't have enough pilots here at USAirways with balls enough to even question what they're doing even though our careers are about to be crapped on for good. Blatant violations of constitutional procedure, secret meetings with the enemy (Kirby), committee heads with the most experience being terminated on a weekly basis, etc., etc. I'm loving the new "transparency". I can see right through every one of these bastards! [/background]

[background=transparent]So, where do we go from here? We have too many sheep among us who are happy to be lead off the cliff. They're either too stupid or indifferent to do anything about what's happening. Aside from calling and emailing my displeasure to the traitors in power in our union, what can I do to stop the momentum these clowns have? I wish I had more faith in our fellow USAPA members but the choices members made in the elections--if they even bothered to vote--shows the true nature or thought process of the union as a whole. I'm disgusted, pissed, and ready for a fight to the end. Can we begin a recall of Hummel based on the info we have? [/background]
[background=transparent]Geez, I'd better get to the gym before I blow a gasket…….[/background]​

[background=transparent]A Disgruntled Pilot but still in the figh.t [/background][background=transparent]Dear disgrunteld pilot, you have nothing to worry about we have a good plan, we might even be putting Doug Mowery (LOA93 architect) Menear and Rowe on the the NAC. Also Caibattoni and Menear were spotted in the Swarthmore public library reading Acheiving Goals and Completing Tasks so now that they are experts you should not have to be concerned. All will be fine.[/background]

I don't think you are going to recall anyone. Progress is finally being made after a 5+ year stalemate that did little more than lighten our pockets. Are you so committed to the status quo that you disintegrate at the first sign that things might not be going the way you personally want it? Well come on in, the water's fine.

One pilot, one vote. That's the rules.

Driver...

 

[traderjake]

If Garry figures out a way to stand asside and allow AA pilots to deny you the opportunity to join with them in giving LCC pilots forced paycuts or other givenacks....

Says the guy who wants to stay on LOA 93 because he thinks he's going to rewrite the seniority list.

 

[eastcoast]

I don't think you are going to recall anyone. Progress is finally being made after a 5+ year stalemate that did little more than lighten our pockets. Are you so committed to the status quo that you disintegrate at the first sign that things might not be going the way you personally want it? Well come on in, the water's fine.

One pilot, one vote. That's the rules.

Driver...

Nice to see some more independent thought around here. Movement away from entrenched positions that have netted nothing but failure, and at great financial cost to all of us, is refreshing.

 

[Move2CLT]

Much like your move to CLT. A year now. What stupidity. It will be many years more. Maybe never.

How do you keep a medical with your full on retardation?

 

[Move2CLT]

I don't think you are going to recall anyone. Progress is finally being made after a 5+ year stalemate that did little more than lighten our pockets. Are you so committed to the status quo that you disintegrate at the first sign that things might not be going the way you personally want it? Well come on in, the water's fine.

One pilot, one vote. That's the rules.

Driver...

In other words luv, your fellow eastie is telling you to STFU.

 

[A320 Driver]

In other words luv, your fellow eastie is telling you to STFU.

No, that's NOT what I'm saying and I'll thank you not to use my posts to hurl insults. We all have an opinion. We all have a vote. Debate and discussion are healthy and we don't all have to agree.

Jerry Clower used to tell the story of the men coon hunting down in Mississippi. One of them climbed the tree only to discover it wasn't a raccoon, it was a lynx, a "souped up wildcat" and it attacked him. He repeatedly cried, "shoot this thing it's killing me". His friends said, "John, we can't shoot up there, we might hit YOU". John said, "Then shoot up here amongst us, one of us gotta have some relief".

That is where I believe we are as a pilot group. We've been in this death struggle for over 5 years and we have accomplished nothing but widen the gap. We need some relief.

We all had expectations when we were hired. We expected to one day be block holding Captains with descent pay, benefits and retirement. Then the downturn started. We lost more ground in this industry than we can ever recover. East lost a sizable portion of their fleet, lost their retirements much of their contract and had the flying shifted to RJs. Post merger, West lost a crew base and much of their flying as well. By then we had already turned on each other and everybody dug their heels in. We need some relief...now. Marriage issues, health issues, mental well being issues...they are all taking their toll. It's time for a change. I believe we are seeing that. The company could just lock us out. That is where we were under previous USAPA leadership.

Accepting the NIC is not a magic potion to prosperity. Fighting the NIC has taken our eye off the ball. This can't go on forever. If this merger happens, we all deserve a place in it that doesn't unravel our careers. There has been enough of that already. But we negotiate the best deal we can in cooperation with the APA or we find ourselves with our noses against the glass staring in at what we think could have been. I remember " a deal at any cost". We got there because we passed on the deal we could have had. That is the point where we became a joke. We held out and we lost. So, all this being said, I support the effort that is taking place to get the best deal we can. I think it comes NOW, not later.

Management wants to make money. We want a decent living. There is a balance that can be struck between the two. Our leadership has to have the wisdom to know when they see it. They won't do that standing in the hall.

Just another opinion...

Driver...

 

[Move2CLT]

No, that's NOT what I'm saying and I'll thank you not to use my posts to hurl insults. We all have an opinion. We all have a vote. Debate and discussion are healthy and we don't all have to agree.

Jerry Clower used to tell the story of the men coon hunting down in Mississippi. One of them climbed the tree only to discover it wasn't a raccoon, it was a lynx, a "souped up wildcat" and it attacked him. He repeatedly cried, "shoot this thing it's killing me". His friends said, "John, we can't shoot up there, we might hit YOU". John said, "Then shoot up here amongst us, one of us gotta have some relief".

That is where I believe we are as a pilot group. We've been in this death struggle for over 5 years and we have accomplished nothing but widen the gap. We need some relief.

We all had expectations when we were hired. We expected to one day be block holding Captains with descent pay, benefits and retirement. Then the downturn started. We lost more ground in this industry than we can ever recover. East lost a sizable portion of their fleet, lost their retirements much of their contract and had the flying shifted to RJs. Post merger, West lost a crew base and much of their flying as well. By then we had already turned on each other and everybody dug their heels in. We need some relief...now. Marriage issues, health issues, mental well being issues...they are all taking their toll. It's time for a change. I believe we are seeing that. The company could just lock us out. That is where we were under previous USAPA leadership.

Accepting the NIC is not a magic potion to prosperity. Fighting the NIC has taken our eye off the ball. This can't go on forever. If this merger happens, we all deserve a place in it that doesn't unravel our careers. There has been enough of that already. But we negotiate the best deal we can in cooperation with the APA or we find ourselves with our noses against the glass staring in at what we think could have been. I remember " a deal at any cost". We got there because we passed on the deal we could have had. That is the point where we became a joke. We held out and we lost. So, all this being said, I support the effort that is taking place to get the best deal we can. I think it comes NOW, not later.

Management wants to make money. We want a decent living. There is a balance that can be struck between the two. Our leadership has to have the wisdom to know when they see it. They won't do that standing in the hall.

Just another opinion...

Driver...

Your careers were unraveled before our merger ever saw the light of day. You were thrown a life vest. The problem here is that you guys want a mulligan going all the way back to before the point where you "became a joke" and you want to do it on the backs of the west pilots.

You guys were deep into ANOTHER bankruptcy while we were no where near one and we had planes on order.

This could have gone forward years ago if you stuck with your end of the deal. You're going to stick with it for sure, but it'll be under the APA's union.

And you did tell luv to STFU because he is the opposite of everything you just posted.

 

[A320 Driver]

Your careers were unraveled before our merger ever saw the light of day. You were thrown a life vest. The problem here is that you guys want a mulligan going all the way back to before the point where you "became a joke" and you want to do it on the backs of the west pilots.

You guys were deep into ANOTHER bankruptcy while we were no where near one and we had planes on order.

This could have gone forward years ago if you stuck with your end of the deal. You're going to stick with it for sure, but it'll be under the APA's union.

And you did tell luv to STFU because he is the opposite of everything you just posted.

Yes, ours did unravel pre-merger. I never said anything else. Yours unraveled post-merger which is probably where AWA would have ended up eventually absent a merger. We had planes on order too. That was undone in BK 1 & 2.
I don't expect a mulligan. The problem with those is they can end up worse, not better. Depends on the landscape at the time. And THAT was the problem with the NIC. The landscape had changed SO MUCH by the time it came out, that it didn't reflect the current paradigm. But we are where we are and yes, APA will have much to do with what happens going forward. More likely, Judge Silver will make some sort of determination if she ever finds the time. Or not...who knows?

The bigger issue right now is how these contacts are blended and if the company can be persuaded to give some assurances with regard to scope. They need labor peace. They need labor support. That is about all the leverage we have going forward.

Oh, and if I want to tell someone to STFU, I just add them to the iggy list. Works every time.

Driver...