July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Zone5]

190's which the west by arbitration should be flying 1/3. But we know what you guys think about arbitration. A 757 that by MOU we are supposed to have but we know what you guy think about sharing and stealing.

How many new 330 did you get BECAUSE of the merger. The TA says that new flying will be shared equitably between the two pilot groups. Has any NEW flying by shared or just stolen from the west?

Explain something. If you all are at min fleet and gotten no additional flying. Why have all the new hires gone east? Why did the company only furlough 125 on the east but 175 on the west? The company has said 350 new hires next year but only 150 retirements. 45 retirements on the west but no new hires? What are all these additional pilots flying?

How many upgrades has the east gotten and 125 downgrades on the west. What has usapa done about balancing the benefits?

Answer this. What has the west gotten from this merger?

Not much.

I suggest however, that you address the rest of your questions to "Team Tempe", that's who have made all the decisions regarding the rest of your post. I suspect that the answer is that management has deployed assets going forward in the manner that they deem is most financially beneficial to the company as a whole, which at the end of the day, benefits both East and West.


seajay

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I just looked at a few cities from Phoenix off the top of my head for tomorrow, Monday. I saw east flights in and out of Phoenix to San Diego, Las Vegas, Minneapolis, and Denver.

 

[nic4us]

I really don't understand this talk about scabbing and stealing jobs. Management had to shut down LAS because it was bleeding money. They moved all of you to PHX where today, much of your flying is actually East flying, but it keeps you above minimum fleet count. You are getting as much benefit as anyone out of this merger. I suppose it depends how you look at it, but that is my take on it. If I'm wrong, show me the numbers and show me where the West generated all that flying, ON IT'S OWN, to replace what was lost.

This is a serious question and NOT flamebait.

Driver...

To give a thorough answere would require more time than I have right now, but I will give a pretty long answere so bear with me. Suffice it to say that you are not going to understand the sentiment as long as you claim "east flying" that is truely not "east flying".

In the simplest terms you are equating domiciles with market share and demographics while the two have nothing to do with each other.

Further, you are totally disregarding the fact that the merger completely changed the bussines plan of both airlines (more so for the east) and saddled the former West with very large cost increases making a night bank out of LAS and red eye feed to PHL and CLT redundant.

On top of that the east has more than doubled the 330 fleet, recieved the 190 fleet that is not in fleet min, taken the ATA 757s, and delivery of how many of the West's orders of 320 types with IAE power? What did the West get? An IOU for some of that flying and a disproportionate furlough total in 2008.

To sum...and in the simplest term...there is no longer east flyng vs. West flying...there is LCC flying...a merger happened...the east and usapa are intentionally taking advantage of seperate ops to steal as much of that flying as they can. Undercutting West pay, intentionally denying West section 6, filing frivoulous LOA93 grievances, filing frivolous lawsuits, seeking West terminations, seeking management terminations, all in an effort to take advantage of a labor disputer to steal jobs. That actually sounds worse than just crossing a picket line and being an accountable scab.

 

[nic4us]

That's kind of my point. So much flying has been moved West to keep their head above water and still I read where the East has raped and pilaged the West flying. I don't get it. And when I ask these questions, I either get insulted or get no answer at all. I wouldn't even ask except that I read post after post about scabbing and taking something from the West. Take WHAT? Scab WHAT? What is it that we have that West wants so badly other than seniority?

Driver...

So much West money, management, and aircraft were moved east just to get them out of bankruptcy........

 

[nic4us]

Neither of which the West "brought" to the merger. I appreciate your honesty however.


seajay

The east brought 6 330s which they could no longer afford to fly....

How many does LCC have now...and who is flying them?

 

[nic4us]

I just looked at a few cities from Phoenix off the top of my head for tomorrow, Monday. I saw east flights in and out of Phoenix to San Diego, Las Vegas, Minneapolis, and Denver.

They also do SEA, SFO, JFK etc etc etc....

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

As far as the oft repeated 'you're flying 24% of our routes,' we on the west can thank ourselves for that one taking hold. Someone from the west tried to pin management down with the tough one, despite us having ample evidence that that never works. We just get a partial truth in return, which often develops a life all it's own.

 

[cleardirect]

The 190s and 757s were settled with you to get the slots after integration, right? You really don't want USAPA do go against the agreement do you? The east is at or very near min. fleet, so how do we even out the flying. How do they make the company put MORE airplanes where they don't need them? Did you listen to the state of the airline and catch the comments about PHX flying?

There are many reasons the east has upgraded and hired. You should know why by now and accept what is happening. The east brought 270 737 and larger A/C to the merger is down to around about 202. What is the west down to?

Read the agreement. It does not say it has to be at the integration it can be done at any time. So usapa chooses to allow the benefit to stay with the east.

If you are at min how is it the east has added pilots since the merger?

How many aircraft would you have without the merger?

The 190 are also above the min fleet.


So what is the answer? What has the west gotten out of this merger?

 

[Pi brat]

I just looked at a few cities from Phoenix off the top of my head for tomorrow, Monday. I saw east flights in and out of Phoenix to San Diego, Las Vegas, Minneapolis, and Denver.

The whole "our flying" thing is B.S. It is the company's flying and it is up to the company to schedule the A/C and crews where they deliver the best return. Thing is, our T/A requirements and separate operations require the company do less than optimum utilization and Parker has said PHX is flying more than it naturally would.

I'm an A320 captain and I just did a quick check of my logbook for the year. Guess how many routes I have flown that were not originally flown by US Airways? Zero. How many west pilots, except the 757 guys, can say that?

 

[Pi brat]

Read the agreement. It does not say it has to be at the integration it can be done at any time. So usapa chooses to allow the benefit to stay with the east.

If you are at min how is it the east has added pilots since the merger?

How many aircraft would you have without the merger?

The 190 are also above the min fleet.


So what is the answer? What has the west gotten out of this merger?

The west has gotten out of the merger what the east has: more than they would have had absent it. The guy running it has told you that over and over and over again. Look at the rest of the industry. AWA could not keep up what they were doing. Would you rather be like Frontier?

The east has had attrition, we were understaffed at the merger(look at the Nic award at the difference in pilots per A/C between east and west) and now I think we are a little overstaffed because the company has no idea how many pilots will retire early or burn their full sick banks instead of taking a dime on the dollar for it. We gained positions from IRO because A330 replaced small A/C in our fleet. We gained management pilots for the 190 and other A/C. We gained the 190 above min fleet because the COMPANY decided they would be better utilized east.

Do you really think the company would go for giving the 190 slots to the west now? Maybe they would. Pass a resolution at the next meeting to have it happen and let's see.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I'm an A320 captain and I just did a quick check of my logbook for the year. Guess how many routes I have flown that were not originally flown by US Airways? Zero. How many west pilots, except the 757 guys, can say that?

Well, I know I can't, for starters. The TA is what it is, and the company does what it does, true enough.

 

[Pi brat]

Well, I know I can't, for starters. The TA is what it is, and the company does what it does, true enough.

That's a "cost" to the east of separate ops-lousy trips. I'm guessing that since you guys picked up A321s it makes more sense to have yours on the long haul stuff and ours beating up the east coast. Maybe the higher required daily block hour requirement and not wanting west crews stuck in the east ATC system where they can't call out reserves to fix irregular ops. Or maybe I'm just giving them too much credit. ;-) Just the way it is for now.

 

[cleardirect]

That's a "cost" to the east of separate ops-lousy trips. I'm guessing that since you guys picked up A321s it makes more sense to have yours on the long haul stuff and ours beating up the east coast. Maybe the higher required daily block hour requirement and not wanting west crews stuck in the east ATC system where they can't call out reserves to fix irregular ops. Or maybe I'm just giving them too much credit. ;-) Just the way it is for now.

So noble. "just the way it is"

The east gets all of the benefits while the west is harmed the whole time demanding separate ops to maintain the east benefit. Why would you guys do anything to jeopardize your monopoly.

A real union and real union pilots would be demanding equality. Instead usapa was designed and built to benefit the east.

 

[Pi brat]

So noble. "just the way it is"

The east gets all of the benefits while the west is harmed the whole time demanding separate ops to maintain the east benefit. Why would you guys do anything to jeopardize your monopoly.

A real union and real union pilots would be demanding equality. Instead usapa was designed and built to benefit the east.

That is your rebuttal to the points I made? Bravo! Well done!

I hope that your perpetual whining at least gives you some mental relief.

 

[Freighterguynow]

The PHX hub is a loser and thats your problem not ours.