June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Beancounter]

Of course it's pointless. APA is going to crush the USAPA scabs like bugs. But then again, who cares anymore?

I can relate to your frustration, but the American merger is not a done deal yet. Giving up and not voting is exactly what the sleazebags that called for a re do would love to see. Since taking a few select individuals out behind the woodshed isn't a viable option, I'll have to settle for just voting.

Bean

 

[Claxon]

Has Move2clt moved to CLT.? Another month slides by. No Nic. No move.....

 

[EastCheats]

Leonidas Update (June 4, 2012)

This is one last reminder for tomorrow's Meet-and-Greet with the West Class attorneys. Remember that unlike all the previous Meet-and-Greets, this one is at the Double Tree Hotel, located at 44th St and Van Buren. Please arrive a few minutes early because Marty and Andy will begin promptly at 10AM and end at 1pm. We have a lot to cover and we are looking forward to discussing with you, the West Class members, where our case is at and where our case is headed. Come tomorrow with your questions!


Leonidas, LLC

 

[nevergiveup]

Leonidas Update (June 4, 2012)

This is one last reminder for tomorrow's Meet-and-Greet with the West Class attorneys. Remember that unlike all the previous Meet-and-Greets, this one is at the Double Tree Hotel, located at 44th St and Van Buren. Please arrive a few minutes early because Marty and Andy will begin promptly at 10AM and end at 1pm. We have a lot to cover and we are looking forward to discussing with you, the West Class members, where our case is at and where our case is headed. Come tomorrow with your questions!


Leonidas, LLC

Please bring your checkbook!

 

[Claxon]

Be sure to ask Marty how he spent the 2 million on the unripe case. What are his plans when Silver puts the nail in the Nic coffin. Make sure Nic4 is watched closely. Talk about loose screws.

 

[luvthe9]

Leonidas Update (June 4, 2012)

This is one last reminder for tomorrow's Meet-and-Greet with the West Class attorneys. Remember that unlike all the previous Meet-and-Greets, this one is at the Double Tree Hotel, located at 44th St and Van Buren. Please arrive a few minutes early because Marty and Andy will begin promptly at 10AM and end at 1pm. We have a lot to cover and we are looking forward to discussing with you, the West Class members, where our case is at and where our case is headed. Come tomorrow with your questions!


Leonidas, LLC

And on one side note everyone please bring your checkbook and open yopur wallets, we are very short on money. Don't forget to ask why is the NIC is never going to happen!!!!

 

[CallawayGolf]

And on one side note everyone please bring your checkbook and open yopur wallets, we are very short on money. Don't forget to ask why is the NIC is never going to happen!!!!

Have you asked anyone at USAPA why the RICO case was lost and how much it cost? How about for the LOA93 grievance, or the Status Quo in NC, or the Status Quo in NY, or the Addington case when evaluated on the merits, or the case against SSMP, or the Mid-Atlantic pilots on furlough, or the PBGC case? Has USAPA had any successful outcomes regarding any of those matters that has put a $1 in any pilot's pocket? How much money has USAPA spent chasing all of those fruitless endeavors? Have you asked? Do you care?

 

[A320 Driver]

Have you asked anyone at USAPA why the RICO case was lost and how much it cost? How about for the LOA93 grievance, or the Status Quo in NC, or the Status Quo in NY, or the Addington case when evaluated on the merits, or the case against SSMP, or the Mid-Atlantic pilots on furlough, or the PBGC case? Has USAPA had any successful outcomes regarding any of those matters that has put a $1 in any pilot's pocket? How much money has USAPA spent chasing all of those fruitless endeavors? Have you asked? Do you care?

You made your point.
On another note, what is happening in Judge Silver's court? Does anyone think she will give the company immunity from liability over the use of the Nic? Will she negotiate for USAPA regardless of the statements made by the 9th when they found Addington not ripe?

How about a REAL discussion without the insults???

Driver...

 

[CallawayGolf]

You made your point.
On another note, what is happening in Judge Silver's court? Does anyone think she will give the company immunity from liability over the use of the Nic? Will she negotiate for USAPA regardless of the statements made by the 9th when they found Addington not ripe?

How about a REAL discussion without the insults???

Driver...

What do you find insulting about listing the legal activities of USAPA and asking what has been produced in financial benefits to the pilots thus far?

I don't give Count 2 or Count 3 much of a chance in Silver's ruling on the DJ. How can she rule that a non-NIC list does not and would never constitute a DFR when this very matter came up in judge Wake's courtroom and the exact opposite was determined based on a review of the merits and was so rendered by an impartial jury? The Ninth said it was not ripe and that they intentionally avoided the thorny issue of reviewing the case on its merits in their chambers. So, how could Silver go so far as to render the a non-NIC seniority list as judgement proof subsequent to ratification (ripeness) based on the events and rulings in either Wake's or the Ninth's courtrooms?

As for immunity, what court is going to do that? Maybe the POTUS could grant immunity from future federal prosecution (if watching 24 taught me anything), but how can a court take away a private group of citizens' rights to assert a claim for breach of contract and a breach of DFR simply because one judge says so prior to the a single court filing on the matter? It's one thing to say that even if the feds had a case against US Airways that they promise not to pursue it, but the feds do not speak for the west pilots who can surely claim harm and have the legal right to demand that a court hear their future case if a non-NIC list is ratified.

So, if the DJ is ripe (and Silver said it was without question), then it would defy all logic for her to grant relief on either Count 2 or Count 3. That only leaves Count 1 (a non-NIC list is a clear DFR) or Count 4 which would be a solution no one has proposed as of yet. The latter is certainly a remote possibility, but my instinct tells me Count 1 has the best chance by far for being granted by Silver sometime this year. Time will tell though.

 

[Move2CLT]

It's never pointless to exercise your right to vote. I commend you for taking a few minutes to do it. I'm sure your fellow pilots appreciate your support, win or lose.

Driver...

And if it doesn't go your way, you guys can simply overturn it. Never mind the conflict of interest

 

[Move2CLT]

You made your point.
On another note, what is happening in Judge Silver's court? Does anyone think she will give the company immunity from liability over the use of the Nic? Will she negotiate for USAPA regardless of the statements made by the 9th when they found Addington not ripe?

How about a REAL discussion without the insults???

Driver...

This has been discussed numerous times.

3 possibilities with 1 likely outcome:

- immunity from DFR by not using Niic (zero chance)
- forcing Nic to be used (highly unlikely)
- not obsolvong the company from liability ( likely)

With no protection against a DFR, the company will go with the safe bet and use Nic.

 

[Move2CLT]

Has Move2clt moved to CLT.? Another month slides by. No Nic. No move.....

Deep breath ClaxoMM.

2014.

 

[nevergiveup]

This has been discussed numerous times.

3 possibilities with 1 likely outcome:

- immunity from DFR by not using Niic (zero chance)
- forcing Nic to be used (highly unlikely)
- not obsolvong the company from liability ( likely)

With no protection against a DFR, the company will go with the safe bet and use Nic.

Be careful. Mr. Parker's efforts have been very impressive and he warned you about torpedoing his deal.

 

[CallawayGolf]

This has been discussed numerous times.

3 possibilities with 1 likely outcome:

- immunity from DFR by not using Niic (zero chance)
- forcing Nic to be used (highly unlikely)
- not obsolvong the company from liability ( likely)

With no protection against a DFR, the company will go with the safe bet and use Nic.

I'm trying to understand your response in context of the Company's filing and prayer for relief. If I understand your position you are saying that Silver will reject all four counts in the Company's request and say something on the order of "I don't know and I cannot therefore grant you relief. If you collude you can be held liable and if you reject USAPA's seniority proposal you continue to run the risk of a NMB self-help scenario. Good luck."

From my perspective she could have said that at any point along the way. It would have been easy for her to grant USAPA's MTD and to leave the parities to determine their own best courses of action. Rather than taking the Ninth's kick the can down the road appraoch, she has accepted the case, called it ripe, and has acknowledged that the company faces a real Hobson's choice, and also acknowledged that the court affirmed that the evidence in the Addington case demonstrated real harm to the west pilots. Given that, I believe she is all but compelled to rule on either Count 1 or Count 2; she has no legal justification to rule in favor of Count 2 based on Addington, so that means that Count 1 is the most likely outcome. Judges can do any number of strange things from the bench, but if she is just going to dismiss without granting relief, why has she tied up her docket with this case for the last year?

 

[EastUS1]

I can relate to your frustration, but the American merger is not a done deal yet. Giving up and not voting is exactly what the sleazebags that called for a re do would love to see. Since taking a few select individuals out behind the woodshed isn't a viable option, I'll have to settle for just voting.

Bean

I applaud your wisdom there Bean. Whatever faces any of is in life...well...the old "Tis better to light a candle than curse the darkness" is an adage I've found useful many times. The failure to exercise whatever input a person has on events, however slight, just due to personal disgust with any situation seems plain foolish to me.