June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

The company is not party to Mc-B. The unions will present their lists, not the company.

That's my estimation as well. I give what management says little value by way of support for or denial of the nic, but can't gain any comfort from Kirby's words either way.

 

[cleardirect]

The company is not party to Mc-B. The unions will present their lists, not the company.

You need to check your facts. Besides if usapa tries to present anything other than the Nicolau list the whole process comes to a halt with an injunction. No pay raise without an implemented seniority list.

Read the term sheet.

 

[EastUS1]

No I did not. And I am amazed at how quickly we turn on one another.

You've evidenced an easy enthusiasm for selling out those junior, via the nic. That takes you well outside of the majority of the "we" you presume to be part of.

 

[dca319]

That's my estimation as well. I give what management says little value by way of support for or denial of the nic, but can't gain any comfort from Kirby's words either way.

From my discussions with Gary, the company is a direct participant because of MB. The APA as well as Parker have confirmed this and I was show correspondence from the APA that verified this. I will try to find this and post it.

 

[EastUS1]

I will try to find this and post it.

Fair enough, please do so at your earliest convenience. I'm unable to be much impressed by your "discussions with Gary". I've admitted ignorance as to how all of this will work out, and am maintaining a "wait and see" perspective.

 

[dca319]

The company is not party to Mc-B. The unions will present their lists, not the company.

I have been told otherwise. Parker does have a say under MB as to what list is submitted and I think that unless the judge rules for us he will submit the Nic. This will go to arbitration none the less.

 

[dca319]

You've evidenced an easy enthusiasm for selling out those junior, via the nic. That takes takes you well outside of the majority of the "we" you presume to be part of.

Does that include 1984 and Trader?

 

[EastUS1]

This will go to arbitration none the less.

We've no argument there, as that much seems certain.

 

[dca319]

Fair enough, please do so at your earliest convenience. I'm unable to be much impressed by your "discussions with Gary". I've admitted ignorance as to how all of this will work out, and am maintaining a "wait and see" perspective.

I will endevour to do so.

 

[EastUS1]

I will endevour to do so.

Thanks in advance. It's never been my notion that not having more information on any given situation serves to benefit.

 

[Black Swan]

I have been told otherwise. Parker does have a say under MB as to what list is submitted and I think that unless the judge rules for us he will submit the Nic. This will go to arbitration none the less.

He cannot submit the Nic legally. You need to read the 9th instead of what Hummel or anyone tells you. What did the COURT say???




"5] We conclude that this case presents contingencies that
could prevent effectuation of USAPA’s proposal and the
accompanying injury. At this point, neither the West Pilots
nor USAPA can be certain what seniority proposal ultimately
will be acceptable to both USAPA and the airline as part of
a final CBA" 9th Court of Appeals


There is no way this company can submit the Nic. It is NOT binding to the successor entity, USAPA. You need to read the 9th before you believe the company can interfere in internal union issues and impose a seniority list on it. The court says the final product may not even be DOH, nor the Nicolau. They clearly state the door is open. It is up to USAPA and the company to AGREE on a final CBA with the seniority issue in it. If Parker submits the Nic, then he will be right before the 9th just like Wake was. That is unless your friend Gary doesn't appeal it.

 

[cleardirect]

He cannot submit the Nic legally. You need to read the 9th instead of what Hummel or anyone tells you. What did the COURT say???




"5] We conclude that this case presents contingencies that
could prevent effectuation of USAPA’s proposal and the
accompanying injury. At this point, neither the West Pilots
nor USAPA can be certain what seniority proposal ultimately
will be acceptable to both USAPA and the airline as part of
a final CBA" 9th Court of Appeals


There is no way this company can submit the Nic. It is NOT binding to the successor entity, USAPA. You need to read the 9th before you believe the company can interfere in internal union issues and impose a seniority list on it. The court says the final product may not even be DOH, nor the Nicolau. They clearly state the door is open. It is up to USAPA and the company to AGREE on a final CBA with the seniority issue in it. If Parker submits the Nic, then he will be right before the 9th just like Wake was. That is unless your friend Gary doesn't appeal it.

Read the term sheet. It will not be usapa agreeing to anything. It will be the APA.

They could give a crap about the Nicolau other than not getting sued. usapa will be the former bargaining agent.

 

[Black Swan]

"[7] Plaintiffs correctly note that certain West Pilots have
been furloughed, whereas they would still be working under
a single CBA implementing the Nicolau Award. It is, however,
at best, speculative that a single CBA incorporating the
Nicolau Award would be ratified if presented to the union’s
membership. ALPA had been unable to broker a compromise
between the two pilot groups, and the East Pilots had
expressed their intentions not to ratify a CBA containing the
Nicolau Award. Thus, even under the district court’s injunction
mandating USAPA to pursue the Nicolau Award, it is
uncertain that the West Pilots’ preferred seniority system ever
would be effectuated" 9th Court of Appeals




There is another LEGAL gem from the 9th for you and the West friends who still don't believe it.

 

[dca319]

He cannot submit the Nic legally. You need to read the 9th instead of what Hummel or anyone tells you. What did the COURT say???




"5] We conclude that this case presents contingencies that
could prevent effectuation of USA
PA’s proposal and the
accompanying injury. At this point, neither the West Pilots
nor USAPA can be certain what seniority proposal ultimately
will be acceptable to both USAPA and the airline as part of
a final CBA" 9th Court of Appeals


There is no way this company can submit the Nic. It is NOT binding to the successor entity, USAPA. You need to read the 9th before you believe the company can interfere in internal union issues and impose a seniority list on it. The court says the final product may not even be DOH, nor the Nicolau. They clearly state the door is open. It is up to USAPA and the company to AGREE on a final CBA with the seniority issue in it. If Parker submits the Nic, then he will be right before the 9th just like Wake was. That is unless your friend Gary doesn't appeal it.

I dont know where you get your information from but there is absolutely nothing that prevents Parker from submitting the Niclau. You point isn't accepted even with the MC and you can call them to verify all this. And you also fail to post the "unquestionably ripe" portion of the opinion. You seem to conveniently leave that out. And, more recently, the company's testimony in the DJ verifying the Niclau doesn't bode well for us. And it's quite obvious that the Niclau, like everything else from ALPA, is binding on us. That also is not in question and we can't pick and choose.

 

[EastUS1]

They could a crap about the Nicolau other than not getting sued.

So....you must now fervently pray that they lie awake in bed at night, uncontrollably shaking and completely consumed with dire dread of the mighty AOL's awesome "power" to produce litigation....I'm not yet so sure that's truly the case here...I guess only time will tell.