June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Heck, if the APA can just arrange a combined list to suit themselves, why not just put all US pilots under all AA pilots???? That eliminates any problems that AA pilots might have with a combined list...and in La-La Land it makes just as much sense as splitting the US list by age.

Of course, in the real world the answer is a potential DFR. The Nic is the third raid of merging with US - touch it and get a big shock.

Jim

 

[EastUS1]

You're useless - can even quote a post...



Feel free to put whatever planes suit your fantasy on that list - it'll still be wrong. Oh...maybe that's why you keep tap dancing and side-stepping - you know you'll be wrong....LOL

The mighty (mouse) East - so afraid of that little word "one"...doing everything possible to address that little issue...

Jim

"You're useless - can even quote a post..." And...it took you three identical postings to say that?...Amusing indeed.

I'll leave the "fantasy" crap to your sorry self. Suggestion: You can avoid such utterly pathetic attempts at squirming out of your BS in the future...by simply not putting out anymore pure BS...If that's even possible for you. Good luck with even the concept.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Once never seems to get through what serves as your skull - apparently three times didn't either sine not a word from you about misquoting my post...and you challenged people to dog fights. Tsk, tsk, tsk...

Still no list East....

Jim

 

[FL430]

=======================================================
Sorry , but I felt completely the opposite regarding the crew news on the 16th...

Did I miss sonething or did Mr Parker and Hemingway not say that the nic was never emplemented..?

He didnt even feel the need to explain anymore, said for the west to "ask your union"....I came away from this news as the nic is gone, unless the merger dosent happen, then its still here if the original TA between east n west produces a Contract.

How many times did they need to say the difference between Macaskill-Bond and the nic, is federal law....Mr Parker said it would take an act of congress to change a Macaskill-Bond arbitration....He left it to you (or ask your union) about a "Non Federal" arbitration....

If you dont see what they were tryin to tell you at the 16th news, then there really has been a waste of bandwidth here for years....Sheesh......

He also told David Braid for the umteenth time that he would not have a job without the merger. How many times does he have to tell you westies that for you to believe it?

LMAO

It seems to me that there was an underlying sense of anxiety and desperation based on the tone and content of the questions being asked by you westies. What are you guys afraid of?

 

[OTTER574]

He also told David Braid for the umteenth time that he would not have a job without the merger. How many times does he have to tell you westies that for you to believe it?

LMAO

It seems to me that there was an underlying sense of anxiety and desperation based on the tone and content of the questions being asked by you westies. What are you guys afraid of?

Because of AFO's like you....Thank GOD I've a mechanism (paid for = AOL) in place to sue my current union CBA and company if they choose not to honor/enforce my contract called the TA.

The SLI with APA (if it happens) will be the company accepted/legal NIC going forward.

OTTER

 

[Move2CLT]

He also told David Braid for the umteenth time that he would not have a job without the merger. How many times does he have to tell you westies that for you to believe it?

LMAO

It seems to me that there was an underlying sense of anxiety and desperation based on the tone and content of the questions being asked by you westies. What are you guys afraid of?

Yawn.

 

[OTTER574]

He also told David Braid for the umteenth time that he would not have a job without the merger. How many times does he have to tell you westies that for you to believe it?

LMAO

It seems to me that there was an underlying sense of anxiety and desperation based on the tone and content of the questions being asked by you westies. What are you guys afraid of?

I've documents here that clearly shows why usapa was formed.

steve bradford/gary hummel/mike cleary.....prison uniform sizing may be coming to usapa officers near YOU.

OTTER

 

[A320 Driver]

I've documents here that clearly shows why usapa was formed.

steve bradford/gary hummel/mike cleary.....prison uniform sizing may be coming to usapa officers near YOU.

OTTER

These posts become more overly dramatic with each passing day. When and if Judge Silver rules on this mess, we will have a clear direction of where things will go on this particular round of litigation. I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure she won't be handing out any prison uniforms. And if her ruling doesn't go perfectly for the West, they will simply have their union (AOL) file more suits and motions. It's likely we have a few more years of legal rangling left in our collective futures.

Driver...

 

[OTTER574]

These posts become more overly dramatic with each passing day. When and if Judge Silver rules on this mess, we will have a clear direction of where things will go on this particular round of litigation. I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure she won't be handing out any prison uniforms. And if her ruling doesn't go perfectly for the West, they will simply have their union (AOL) file more suits and motions. It's likely we have a few more years of legal rangling left in our collective futures.

Driver...

Driver....Judge Silver was asked by the company to rule on CONTRACT LAW...Called the TA of which the company has signed and is a party to.

All roads (usapa/union as cba) lead through the TA Driver.

You, I and the company are enjoined by this CONTRACT.

OTTER

 

[Zone5]

No. What is says is that AA pilots will get paid until the APA can negotiate for a joint contract for the Us Airways pilots. So if you east guys want to drag this out we will not get paid. If it has to go to arbitration for the contract we do not get paid until the seniority list is implemented.

Exactly! In the mean time, how much sleep do you think "Team Tempe" is going to be loosing over the continuation of the SLI issue?

3-3-3-1, that's the plan. Sleep tight, "Dougie" is planning on it!


seajay

 

[Ames]

Don't see an edit button on this new layout, but related to my previous post...

Personally I see the lack of seniority issues in this update as a good thing.

I agree. It's a good thing because you have smarter people running ucrapa who realize DOH will never happen and they are smart enough to realize it's not worth mentioning any more.

 

[Ames]

I figure it is going to go pretty much how the APA wants it to go. Their updates have already focused heavily on the retirement numbers, so I am guessing they will go with whatever method maximizes their folks seniority. Meaning the method that puts the oldest pilots that are closest to retirement above their guys and resist anything that puts younger pilots above their older ones.

I figure if you want to see what direction they are going to take, 3 way or 2 way the only thing you have to do is look at the above consideration. Now on the legal side who knows how it will all wash out, but as far as what I think they will be pushing for, 3 way is my guess. For the simple fact that it adds a bunch of mid to late 50's guys into the reletive mix at a higher level than a 2 way that includes NIC and would add more late 30's and 40's guys at the higher level.

Time will tell though.

Your three way fantasy is in serious doubt. APA and the company are pushing this merger hard. They want it done quickly and efficiently. There is no means for a fair representation of the AWA pilots in a three way and any integration proposal without the Nicolau (legally arbitrated) list will be met with an injunction that will severely impair the efficiency of the merger.

The AOL lawyers have already informed APA and the company of this fact and although Parker is currently pandering the east in crew news appearances he will make the decision which best suits him when the time comes. What possible benefit to the APA or the company would be derived from doing otherwise?

 

[Ames]

He also told David Braid for the umteenth time that he would not have a job without the merger. How many times does he have to tell you westies that for you to believe it?

LMAO

It seems to me that there was an underlying sense of anxiety and desperation based on the tone and content of the questions being asked by you westies. What are you guys afraid of?

Where an easthole sees desperation everyone else sees intelligent questions being asked (and dodged by the artful dodger).

Where an easthole hears Parker saying we wouldn't have jobs if not for a merger everyone else hears Parker placating said eastholes for the umpteenth time.

Watch those sections again, carefully. Braid has Parker on the ropes and Parker tries desperately to dodge the hard questions. So much so that in a subsequent section Parker says to give the mike to anyone but Braid. Parker was exasperated and he knows that he can't go on being obtuse and speaking against the facts and he cannot continue to pretend ignorance as to what is being said and done in the courtroom on his behalf.

He will continue trying to placate the east until it is no longer necessary to do so and then the cold, hard business decisions will be made. This will happen sooner rather than later.

 

[Ames]

These posts become more overly dramatic with each passing day. When and if Judge Silver rules on this mess, we will have a clear direction of where things will go on this particular round of litigation. I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure she won't be handing out any prison uniforms. And if her ruling doesn't go perfectly for the West, they will simply have their union (AOL) file more suits and motions. It's likely we have a few more years of legal rangling left in our collective futures.

Driver...

I am sure that this merger with American will put the legal wrangling to bed. Parker and APA want this thing done quickly and they will put an end to our squabbles in the most expeditious manner possible.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Let me understand you. You think that the APA guys are going to take into account age as a factor. Even though it is not a player in any merger method. You think that the APA guys are willing to allow you "old" east guys to bid for 4-5-6-7 years ahead of them because you will leave soon.

I do think that age will be a factor when APA looks at using 2 lists that include NIC or using 3 lists. The reason is this.....

If they use 2 with a NIC it puts almost all the west f/o's above the east f/o's. The bottom 1/3 of the east active list, everyone hired after 1988, is stapled under all west f/o's The middle 1/3 is slotted heavy to the wests favor when you look at age. Middle 1/3 east guy hired in 1986 in many cases is junior to a guy hired in the late 90's on the west. Other than rare cases of somebody hired very young or very old this is a 10+ year difference in age on average in that section of the list.

The APA has basically nothing to worry about from the top 1/3 of the east list in a 3 way. They wont be a factor due to the 7 year fences doug tossed to them. East has 1509 retiring between now and the end of 2019. 1749 by end of 2020. Even if this merger runs at light speed and gets done by January of next year, as far as the APA is concerened 1509 on the east dont exist since they wont be here when the fences expire. West only has about 400 retiring during this same period.

Under a 2 way with NIC the APA would be dealing with a lot more younger guys in the middle 1/3 of the list where it really counts slotting in much higher up in the list. And since by their numbers I have seen posted AA's retirements dont really start kicking in until 2017 or so they would be putting what is right now junior west F/O's above their captains. Under NIC the west has many f/o's that would be holding Capt. equilevant sen numbers right now. By the time the fences expire all the west current f/o's would be holding capt numbers.

So basically we have the same issues we have now except it will be APA not willing to give up their attrition and wide bodies to a bunch of younger pilots.

I have no idea how all this is going to play out, but I do see the retirement differences being a factor (age) when they(APA) are figuring out what they want to try for. The question will come down to how much fear of a dfr from a small percentage of the total pilot group vs. the seniority differences. Our top 1509 guys on the east list are not even a factor in this merger as far as APA is concerned the way I see it. The fences outlast those guys.

So yes I do see the APA considering heavily the age issue when they are working through this potential merger.