June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Zone5]

Your three way fantasy is in serious doubt. APA and the company are pushing this merger hard. They want it done quickly and efficiently. There is no means for a fair representation of the AWA pilots in a three way and any integration proposal without the Nicolau (legally arbitrated) list will be met with an injunction that will severely impair the efficiency of the merger.

The AOL lawyers have already informed APA and the company of this fact and although Parker is currently pandering the east in crew news appearances he will make the decision which best suits him when the time comes. What possible benefit to the APA or the company would be derived from doing otherwise?

Gee, I don't know, maybe to save about $500,000.00 a year in pilot cost savings?

I think "Dougie" will most likely get this "merger" (one paint job) done. A single joint pilot contract anytime soon? NOT!

There is absolutely zero imperative that we all join hands and skip on down the road together to get this done. He knows it and the money people know it.


seajay

 

[Claxon]

David Braid and the rest of the Franke Disciples would all be SOL without the eastern division lifeboat. Their western jets are in all the eastern hubs, trying to stay afloat. There would be no place to fly their metal without the east. The LUV machine is eating their lunch in PHX. Parker has made it clear again, USAPA will determine the seniority submitted. The Army of Leonidas is simply a seniority Ponzi scheme. It's leaders have been sucked into the USAPA machine, effectively neutering them. Parker continues to warn the Leonidas seniority thieves to get real, before the APA reality slams the door in their rear ends. I have also noticed the new tone of the westerners. They are scared. For good reason. They are like determined bank robbers who drilled into the vault too long with dull bits. The cops are at the door, and the seniorty theft has still not taken place. There is no scope for them, there is no place to go. There is no Nicolau.
David Braid is looking over his shoulder for good reason, the train is coming. Next time you ride a van with the westerners, ask them if America West was their first choice for employment. They will shift uncomfortably in their seats when asked.

 

[Zone5]

Where an easthole sees desperation everyone else sees intelligent questions being asked (and dodged by the artful dodger).

Where an easthole hears Parker saying we wouldn't have jobs if not for a merger everyone else hears Parker placating said eastholes for the umpteenth time.

Watch those sections again, carefully. Braid has Parker on the ropes and Parker tries desperately to dodge the hard questions. So much so that in a subsequent section Parker says to give the mike to anyone but Braid. Parker was exasperated and he knows that he can't go on being obtuse and speaking against the facts and he cannot continue to pretend ignorance as to what is being said and done in the courtroom on his behalf.

He will continue trying to placate the east until it is no longer necessary to do so and then the cold, hard business decisions will be made. This will happen sooner rather than later.

I agree with you that Parker is somewhat exasperated by all this East-West squabbling. He has a lot more pressing matters on his plate right about now. Just check out the look on his face when the West guy called USAPA "a bunch of thugs".

Go back and check out his demeanor during the East briefing. He really seemed glad to be there and seemed to be enjoying the overall tenor and positive reaction to his presentation.

During the West briefing, he looks like someone is dragging their fingernails across a blackboard! Totally different atmosphere.


seajay

 

[Claxon]

Where an easthole sees desperation everyone else sees intelligent questions being asked (and dodged by the artful dodger).

Where an easthole hears Parker saying we wouldn't have jobs if not for a merger everyone else hears Parker placating said eastholes for the umpteenth time.

Watch those sections again, carefully. Braid has Parker on the ropes and Parker tries desperately to dodge the hard questions. So much so that in a subsequent section Parker says to give the mike to anyone but Braid. Parker was exasperated and he knows that he can't go on being obtuse and speaking against the facts and he cannot continue to pretend ignorance as to what is being said and done in the courtroom on his behalf.

He will continue trying to placate the east until it is no longer necessary to do so and then the cold, hard business decisions will be made. This will happen sooner rather than later.



Parker has fed Braid enough rope to hang the entire gang of western seniority thieves in the video. Braid has still not heisted his seniority from the owners of it through the Leonidas Ponzi Scheme. Parker clearly warns Braid, but the Disciples of Franke are like the followers of Jim Jones, unwilling to compromise. Pursuing their delusions to the end, and the end is no Nicolau. Continue to drink the Kool Aide of Leonidas. The final draught will be stinging with irony. There will be no Nicolau list.

 

[Claxon]

Have the westerners considered changing AOL to SOL? Apparently Bular gave the bad news on the western hiring for some years is over. Has Move2Clt considered a new screen name? Move2China would be more relevant considering the news on the widebody lockout. David Braid has been Shanghaid by USAPA. Literally. He must move2china to realize his widebody theft.

 

[Ames]

I agree with you that Parker is somewhat exasperated by all this East-West squabbling. He has a lot more pressing matters on his plate right about now. Just check out the look on his face when the West guy called USAPA "a bunch of thugs".

Go back and check out his demeanor during the East briefing. He really seemed glad to be there and seemed to be enjoying the overall tenor and positive reaction to his presentation.

During the West briefing, he looks like someone is dragging their fingernails across a blackboard! Totally different atmosphere.


seajay

You prove my point. West pilots asking intelligent questions and not accepting BS was exasperating for Parker. In the east crew news where he is placating you (for now) and no one is asking the hard questions was quite a breather for him

 

[Ames]

Have the westerners considered changing AOL to SOL? Apparently Bular gave the bad news on the western hiring for some years is over. Has Move2Clt considered a new screen name? Move2China would be more relevant considering the news on the widebody lockout. David Braid has been Shanghaid by USAPA. Literally. He must move2china to realize his widebody theft.

I was going to respond to all of your posts but suffice it to say that you are so clueless that any response other than this one is a total waste of time. Go back to posting as NOS or MM, all equally clueless and insignificant.

 

[Graceson]

Your three way fantasy is in serious doubt. APA and the company are pushing this merger hard. They want it done quickly and efficiently. There is no means for a fair representation of the AWA pilots in a three way and any integration proposal without the Nicolau (legally arbitrated) list will be met with an injunction that will severely impair the efficiency of the merger.

The AOL lawyers have already informed APA and the company of this fact and although Parker is currently pandering the east in crew news appearances he will make the decision which best suits him when the time comes. What possible benefit to the APA or the company would be derived from doing otherwise?

A lower court issuing an injunction, in effect, overides a circuit court's finding that any SLI grievance is ripe when harm is done. Requesting an injunction might revolve around harm, the relevance of an unresolved placeholding SLI Pending implementation, and an argument for fair and equitable. Parker, in crewnews, seemed to forward this argument from his attorneys -- perhaps a preview of strategy to keep the process moving.

A denied injunction due to underwhelming argument might prejudice a subsequent DFR's claim of harm. But there's no reward without risk... as is true with loss.

 

[nic4us]

A lower court issuing an injunction, in effect, overides a circuit court's finding that any SLI grievance is ripe when harm is done. Requesting an injunction might revolve around harm, the relevance of an unresolved placeholding SLI Pending implementation, and an argument for fair and equitable. Parker, in crewnews, seemed to forward this argument from his attorneys -- perhaps a preview of strategy to keep the process moving.

A denied injunction due to underwhelming argument might prejudice a subsequent DFR's claim of harm. But there's no reward without risk... as is true with loss.

Go read the 9ths opinion in Addington again. Everything is prefaced with the disclaimer that the opinion does not claim that a DFR is never ripe prior to a contracts ratification.

The instant usapa passes a non-Nic as there "official certified" seniority list at an MB arbitration, the sought injunction would not be free standing but a requested action as part of the DFRII filing.

If the company is sitting at the table and makes no objections, they are on the hook as well, and in a very precarious position.

The "underwhelming arguement" being, usapa just used an unratified, uncertified, contrived list that is not the officially accepted, contractually mandated, certified by our respective ratified CBAs list.

Of course an injunction could be denied, and of course that could influence the results of the DFRII.

However, all the risk lies with the company.....so..it ain't going to happen, because the company is not going to risk usapa effin up the deal to once again prove to the world their scab status.

 

[nic4us]

Have the westerners considered changing AOL to SOL? Apparently Bular gave the bad news on the western hiring for some years is over. Has Move2Clt considered a new screen name? Move2China would be more relevant considering the news on the widebody lockout. David Braid has been Shanghaid by USAPA. Literally. He must move2china to realize his widebody theft.

Maybe we should change AOL to LOL.

cause that is what we do everytime we read of the dementia from our opponents.

 

[nic4us]

So what is up with the BPR firing the West members of the NC and replacing them?

I heard Lee and Mark were kicked off the MC and replaced by Ken Holmes and Johan Devic(sp).

Very interesting because Ken and Johan are both Addington plaintiffs if I recall correctly.

Could this be a move to get the West pilot class seperate representation under the class status granted by Silver?

Maybe we are headed for a threeway. In which I might add usapa is going to get its ass handed to it. Because, regardless of what Zone5 thinks, the APA is going to screw the entire LCC pilot group to the wall, and the east contingent is going to end up with positions less favorable than Nic gifted them in relation to the West pilots.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Maybe we are headed for a threeway. In which I might add usapa is going to get its ass handed to it. Because, regardless of what Zone5 thinks, the APA is going to screw the entire LCC pilot group to the wall, and the east contingent is going to end up with positions less favorable than Nic gifted them in relation to the West pilots.

Actually if you factor in the 7 year fence plus the retirements the east would be in a much better position. By the time the fence expires pretty much the only east pilots that will be left are the ones that are either stapled by nic or take huge seniority hits from nic. In 7 years under a NIC pretty much every east pilot would be junior to every west pilot. In 7 years under a 3 way pretty much east and west will be in the same reletive spot they are now fleet wise. The bottom f/o on the east side will be 1500 numbers more senior and the bottom west f/o will be 400 numbers more senior. About the same movement percentage wise with 3400 current east and 1600 current west.

I am sure the east can live with that. Assuming that the 7 year fence applies to all 3 groups.

 

[mrbreeze]

So what is up with the BPR firing the West members of the NC and replacing them?

I heard Lee and Mark were kicked off the MC and replaced by Ken Holmes and Johan Devic(sp).

Very interesting because Ken and Johan are both Addington plaintiffs if I recall correctly.

Could this be a move to get the West pilot class seperate representation under the class status granted by Silver?

Maybe we are headed for a threeway. In which I might add usapa is going to get its ass handed to it. Because, regardless of what Zone5 thinks, the APA is going to screw the entire LCC pilot group to the wall, and the east contingent is going to end up with positions less favorable than Nic gifted them in relation to the West pilots.

The hope is fading away, eh?

What is being discussed with APA is DOH with C/Rs, nothing else.....three way, two way, nope.

Parker is allowing this to go to the next arbitrator, IF IT GETS THAT FAR, since USAPA and APA represent the two pilot groups. That way, he has totally washed his hands of the whole mess. If you west pilots think he cares, you are fools. All he cares about is his big payday and no liability.

Clear keeps talking about Parker having a seat at the M/B arbitration...that is true, but as I recall, it is an option for him....he is not required to participate.

Now, when this all shakes out, why would he have anything to add.....it just hurts his bottom line.

breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

Sorry, don't meant to come off so rude to the west pilots.....this board is funky and I was unable to edit my post.

That is just the way I see things working out.

breeze

 

[Zone5]

You prove my point. West pilots asking intelligent questions and not accepting BS was exasperating for Parker. In the east crew news where he is placating you (for now) and no one is asking the hard questions was quite a breather for him

Well, at least we can agree that Parker looked exasperated at the West briefing.

I guess we will just have to disagree as to why.


seajay