June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

The hope is fading away, eh?

What is being discussed with APA is DOH with C/Rs, nothing else.....three way, two way, nope.

Parker is allowing this to go to the next arbitrator, IF IT GETS THAT FAR, since USAPA and APA represent the two pilot groups. That way, he has totally washed his hands of the whole mess. If you west pilots think he cares, you are fools. All he cares about is his big payday and no liability.

Clear keeps talking about Parker having a seat at the M/B arbitration...that is true, but as I recall, it is an option for him....he is not required to participate.

Now, when this all shakes out, why would he have anything to add.....it just hurts his bottom line.

breeze

Again Breeze, Parker just said the exact opposite of what you posted.

But, lets assume you are correct, and all that is being discussed is DOH with C&Rs. You do realize that the APA has TWA pilots on the bottom of their list with DOHs that make the east pilots look like the new kids on the block? When you further factor in that a TWA 1987 hire was never furloughed and has LOS that blow the east out of the water, it all adds up to the stapling of the majority of LCC pilots to the bottom of the APA list.

usapa is so stupid it is very lucky it has the West looking out for its best interest.

 

[mrbreeze]

Again Breeze, Parker just said the exact opposite of what you posted.

But, lets assume you are correct, and all that is being discussed is DOH with C&Rs. You do realize that the APA has TWA pilots on the bottom of their list with DOHs that make the east pilots look like the new kids on the block? When you further factor in that a TWA 1987 hire was never furloughed and has LOS that blow the east out of the water, it all adds up to the stapling of the majority of LCC pilots to the bottom of the APA list.

usapa is so stupid it is very lucky it has the West looking out for its best interest.

Most of us are senior to anyone left over from TWA.

Also, C/Rs mean fences lasting the duration until we retire, protecting us into our attrition gained positions, which is all we ever wanted anyway. It just blocks you guys from leap frogging over any East or AA pilots.

THAT IS WHAT DOH WITH C/Rs IS DESIGNED TO DO.....keep out the riff raff.
breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

You guys would have been better off accepting something with fences years ago with the East pilots, because now you are looking at the flood gates of the AA pilots coming intpo play.

Not having been through a merger in your past, and having the lottery ticket feed your greed,.....well that really screwed with your heads.

breeze

 

[Keroseneuser]

Also, C/Rs mean fences lasting the duration until we retire, protecting us into our attrition gained positions, which is all we ever wanted anyway.

I figure the AA boys will be the same way. They will mostly want to fence off their current guys and protect their attrition coming up.

The east had a few very vocal DOH types plastering stuff all over the boards back then, but for the majority of the east guys all they wanted was to protect their attrition. Same as now. Thats why NIC met the resistance it did. It gave nearly all the east attrition to the west.

DOH without fences will absolutly not work now as it would not work back then AA wont stand for it. On the flip side something that gives away one groups attrition to another group wont work either, just as the last 7 years has shown us here. However it goes down I figure the fences will be high enough to protect each of the 3 groups attrition from being given to another group. So I figure the movement we will see in the next 7 years excluding any growth will be 400 on the west, 1500 on the east and however many retires the AA guys have on their side.

 

[Zone5]

Again Breeze, Parker just said the exact opposite of what you posted.

But, lets assume you are correct, and all that is being discussed is DOH with C&Rs. You do realize that the APA has TWA pilots on the bottom of their list with DOHs that make the east pilots look like the new kids on the block? When you further factor in that a TWA 1987 hire was never furloughed and has LOS that blow the east out of the water, it all adds up to the stapling of the majority of LCC pilots to the bottom of the APA list.

usapa is so stupid it is very lucky it has the West looking out for its best interest.

I think (from my understanding) that the TWA pilots got a crap deal. I feel the same way about the Empire pilots, for the most part.

DOH with C&R's for all, including the two above mentioned pilot groups, works for me.

A seven year fence going forward, so I can at least keep my little bought and paid for "piece of cheese", will get my vote. I don't want anything AA or the West has, never have, never will.

It's a bummer that "Team Tempe" chose to shrink the West more than the East (relative to original size) and with furlough protection for AA a given, we both may very well see more of the same, post merger.

As I'm sure Parker would tell us all, "nothing personal, it's just the business reality of the situation", but then we all knew that when we first got in to this "God forsaken" business.

My Grandmother was right, I should have stayed in school and gotten a real job!


seajay

 

[mrbreeze]

I figure the AA boys will be the same way. They will mostly want to fence off their current guys and protect their attrition coming up.

The east had a few very vocal DOH types plastering stuff all over the boards back then, but for the majority of the east guys all they wanted was to protect their attrition. Same as now. Thats why NIC met the resistance it did. It gave nearly all the east attrition to the west.

DOH without fences will absolutly not work now as it would not work back then AA wont stand for it. On the flip side something that gives away one groups attrition to another group wont work either, just as the last 7 years has shown us here. However it goes down I figure the fences will be high enough to protect each of the 3 groups attrition from being given to another group. So I figure the movement we will see in the next 7 years excluding any growth will be 400 on the west, 1500 on the east and however many retires the AA guys have on their side.

spot on

 

[mrbreeze]

I think (from my understanding) that the TWA pilots got a crap deal. I feel the same way about the Empire pilots, for the most part.

DOH with C&R's for all, including the two above mentioned pilot groups, works for me.

A seven year fence going forward, so I can at least keep my little bought and paid for "piece of cheese", will get my vote. I don't want anything AA or the West has, never have, never will.

It's a bummer that "Team Tempe" chose to shrink the West more than the East (relative to original size) and with furlough protection for AA a given, we both may very well see more of the same, post merger.

As I'm sure Parker would tell us all, "nothing personal, it's just the business reality of the situation", but then we all knew that when we first got in to this "God forsaken" business.

My Grandmother was right, I should have stayed in school and gotten a real job!


seajay

I agree, seajay

 

[mrbreeze]

You guys would have been better off accepting something with fences years ago with the East pilots, because now you are looking at the flood gates of the AA pilots coming intpo play.

Not having been through a merger in your past, and having the lottery ticket feed your greed,.....well that really screwed with your heads.

breeze

And to re-quote what I have always said. "Nicalou only served to screw up the whole process....he did us all a huge disservice."

breeze

 

[Graceson]

Again Breeze, Parker just said the exact opposite of what you posted.

But, lets assume you are correct, and all that is being discussed is DOH with C&Rs. You do realize that the APA has TWA pilots on the bottom of their list with DOHs that make the east pilots look like the new kids on the block? When you further factor in that a TWA 1987 hire was never furloughed and has LOS that blow the east out of the water, it all adds up to the stapling of the majority of LCC pilots to the bottom of the APA list.

usapa is so stupid it is very lucky it has the West looking out for its best interest.

Compromise. Everyone will be harmed equally.

 

[Zone5]

Compromise. Everyone will be harmed equally.

Ah yes, the very essence of a "fair" SLI, the silent, middle majority, accept the list and move on and a relatively, small minority, on at both ends piss and moan forever.

And so it goes........


seajay

 

[luvthe9]

David Braid and the rest of the Franke Disciples would all be SOL without the eastern division lifeboat. Their western jets are in all the eastern hubs, trying to stay afloat. There would be no place to fly their metal without the east. The LUV machine is eating their lunch in PHX. Parker has made it clear again, USAPA will determine the seniority submitted. The Army of Leonidas is simply a seniority Ponzi scheme. It's leaders have been sucked into the USAPA machine, effectively neutering them. Parker continues to warn the Leonidas seniority thieves to get real, before the APA reality slams the door in their rear ends. I have also noticed the new tone of the westerners. They are scared. For good reason. They are like determined bank robbers who drilled into the vault too long with dull bits. The cops are at the door, and the seniorty theft has still not taken place. There is no scope for them, there is no place to go. There is no Nicolau.
David Braid is looking over his shoulder for good reason, the train is coming. Next time you ride a van with the westerners, ask them if America West was their first choice for employment. They will shift uncomfortably in their seats when asked.

This is one of the funniest ones I have read in a while, but how true. The west boys should be going after Furguson for for leading them down the wrong path now all the AWA pilots will suffer, WYE RIVER!!!!

 

[luvthe9]

Just watched the beginning of the PHX video, luved it " I have 25 yrs here" that's junior on the east side, and you want to fly wide bodies, well did you bring any into this merge, I think not. You would have had them if it were not for Furguson and is little AFO club. When will you guys learn, I almost felt sorry for you after that video.

 

[nic4us]

Just watched the beginning of the PHX video, luved it " I have 25 yrs here" that's junior on the east side, and you want to fly wide bodies, well did you bring any into this merge, I think not. You would have had them if it were not for Furguson and is little AFO club. When will you guys learn, I almost felt sorry for you after that video.

You must have watched a different video than I did. In the one I watched Rhett did not say he wanted to fly widebodies, he said he is a 757 captain with over 25 years and made reference to the 747 AWA once had, noting that Nic put 352 east pilots senior to him that are younger than him, and warned not the West but the east idiots who have no idea of the effed up position they have put us al in that the only LCC pilots flying widebodies in a post AMR merger would be the ones who left to fly for ChinaSouthern, because the rst will be stripped from LCC because of who is going to dominate the top of the seniority list in an AMRLCC merger.

But, being and ignorant, self-important idiot with no clue of just how your crappy position at the shithole airline AWA aquired entitles you to less than what you over inflated ego is even capable of recognizing, I guess Rhett's word fell on deaf ears.

enjoy the boiled cat, I hear it is a delicacy.

 

[nic4us]

spot on

Breeze, the guy said exactly the opposite of what you said....and he is "spot on"?

um...okay....so its definitely DOH with C&Rs that just absolutely will not work?

 

[OTTER574]

This is one of the funniest ones I have read in a while, but how true. The west boys should be going after Furguson for for leading them down the wrong path now all the AWA pilots will suffer, WYE RIVER!!!!

If this goes to a 3 way and that's a big IF...West interest's will be properly represented. How you get to a legal 3 way is questionable, if not impossible. Funny thing is, the east AFO's may be begging for the NIC with APA in a SLI. Given past history of my hired/paid for CBA/usapa and my current contract provisions not enforced. Maybe this will not be favored by such Arbitrator (s) to benefit the east given all the evidence of corrupt east/usapa.


You east guys screwed the pooch when you took away separate ratification and forming usapa.

Explaining past actions and current CONTRACT ENFORCEMENT concerning the WEST CLASS will be a BIG PROBLEM if this goes to a 3 way.

OTTER