June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

No liquidation took place....Period. Go over that as many times as needed for it to sink in. Further contemplation is suggested on that pesky "Reality Thing". Perhaps your life would be greatly improved by sometimes stepping outside Fantasyland and taking a look around 😉

Deep breath east - you're spazzing.

You didn't liquidate because you were bought.

Repeat.

 

[EastUS1]

I flew with East pilots in a previous life before you were an Easthole and I was a Westicle. It did not have to be this way.

Indeed. I'd wish things to be otherwise as well.

 

[im back..!!]

For what little it's worth LS?...I can only say that I considered the severe nature of what happened, via the legal assault, to be wrong on too many levels to count. This never should have happened to people who's only "crime" was web chat and such nonsense, just for starters....not that my thoughts make anything better for those who got stomped on for basically nothing.

What happened here? Maybe we all could learn from it?

i certainly dont want anyone else getting intotrouble, can someone explain?

 

[cleardirect]

OK, Clear,

Here is an example.....

Just this morning I was coming home. When I got on the terminal train at DIA, coming from B concourse to the main terminal, there was this causually dressed business man (blue jeans and a white shirt) who was the first guy to board the train. He stepped on the train and stopped at the door, disregarding about 20 passengers who had to work their way around him to board the train, while the doors were closing. Instead of being thoughtful toward his fellow human beings and moving on deeper into the train, he took care of himself....totally oblivious to "his fellow pilots"......oops, I meant his fellow human beings. It was all about him.

That is your attitude, Clear.

breeze

Yes but according to you east guys he was at the front of the line and had been waiting for longer then anyone so therefore he is entitled to take whatever position he wants. You see because he had sacrificed so much in order to be at the front of that line he was owed it and everyone else could be in that premium position next time.

 

[cleardirect]

No liquidation took place....Period. Go over that as many times as needed for it to sink in. Further contemplation is suggested on that pesky "Reality Thing". Perhaps your life would be greatly improved by sometimes stepping outside Fantasyland and taking a look around 😉

DOH did not happen. How about letting that sink in? Go over it as many times as needed.

Further contemplation is suggested on that pesky "Reality Thing". Perhaps your life would be greatly improved by sometimes stepping outside Fantasyland and taking a look around 😉

I will let your own works speak for themselves.

 

[EastCheats]

Indeed. I'd wish things to be otherwise as well.

I was indifferent when the "merger" was announced. I remember the time Jack S was introduced and spoke to our pilots Tempe. He was applauded by Westies. We were on the right track as a unified group.

Back then, a clean slate.

Opportunity missed? Maybe.

 

[cleardirect]

What happened here? Maybe we all could learn from it?

i certainly dont want anyone else getting intotrouble, can someone explain?

One of the first acts of usapa was to sue 18 west pilots for RICO. They filed a multi million dollar law suit against individuals. It cost them several hundred thousand dollar to defend themselves against false charges. The case was dismissed with prejudice. But that was not good enough for the vindictive new union and chest thumping east pilots. They appealed and threatened to go to state court. This drug on for almost 2 years.

The crime was west pilots standing up for their rights and speaking out against usapa. The acts were phone calls and web board posts. So according to usapa and the east pilots that supported that action what we are doing here should be banned and cost us $5 million a piece for speaking badly of usapa.

 

[EastUS1]

What happened here? Maybe we all could learn from it?

i certainly dont want anyone else getting intotrouble, can someone explain?

It's all ancient news that goes back to the period shortly after usapa was voted in. The chosen legal remedy against the behavior of some people was litigation that went up the, imo, ridiculous level of an attempted RICO action = racketeering/etc. While I can't condone or in any way excuse some west people's behavior during that time frame (attempts at wholesale sabaotoge via clogging phone lines, "interesting" items sent through the mail/etc); what's most troublesome to me is that at least a few of the folks targeted evidently did little, or even nothing more than essentially just posting their anti-usapa notions online. I can't see that as anything to be rationally pursued as a criminal act. My best guess is that LS fell into that latter category, and shouldn't have ever needed to be involved with the glorious legal system for it. He seems a decent very sort to me in chat, and I'm hard pressed to imagine him as any accused or supposed "criminal".

 

[EastUS1]

The crime was west pilots standing up for their rights and speaking out against usapa.

While as stated above; I obviously don't support the extreme actions taken against those undeserving of such....well,,,What you're now saying, as a blanket statement, is pure and typical BS. There were indeed some people who definately deserved consequences for their actions.

 

[EastUS1]

Opportunity missed? Maybe.

Yep..and very sadly, by all concerned it seems...and here we all are, still divided. Oh well...life goes on for us all yet....Within "The Big Picture"? = Just another little interesting experience along the way. Have a good one today.

 

[CallawayGolf]

How grandiose indeed...."strong and honorable or weak and detestable"....Sigh! You just can't make this sort of "stuff" up: "...honor in the face of adversity."? This is merely a labor group dispute. What dire level of "adversity" are you suggesting or even imagining here? It takes nothing "strong and honorable" to just hire some smarmy lawyers for either side. Get over yourself already...sheesh!

So you disagree that it is under periods of distress, trials, adversity where the true character of a person emerges as opposed to a time of peace and contentment? It's when a man hits his thumb with a hammer, or has his prized car is run into in the parking lot, when he loses big in the stock market, or any other time of adversity when the true nature and character of the man is revealed.

BTW - I wasn't the one that claimed the east pilots lost everything and were somehow compelled to abandon their collective honor as a result. I was simply replying to a post that made the claim that not honoring one's agreements is understandable given the circumstances. My point was clearly to point out that honor (morals, character, trustworthiness) and adversity are not inseparably linked. The crucible of adversity does not change a person's character it simply reveals it. When a metal becomes molten hot, the impurities contained within are released and revealed where they were otherwise masked from view - and so it is with us.

 

[EastUS1]

So you disagree that it is under periods of distress, trials, adversity where the true character of a person emerges as opposed to a time of peace and contentment? It's when a man hits his thumb with a hammer, or has his prized car is run into in the parking lot, when he loses big in the stock market, or any other time of adversity when the true nature and character of the man is revealed.

You're absolutely and completely just joking here....aren't you? 😉 I mean...at least be somewhat serious: "It's when a man hits his thumb with a hammer, or has his prized car is run into in the parking lot, when he loses big in the stock market, or any other time of adversity when the true nature and character of the man is revealed."

Ummm....I must be certain that I have this down correctly = When somebody merely hits his thumb with a hammer....or gets some damage to a parked car...such actually "qualifes" to you as notable "periods of distress, trials, adversity"....?...and is "when the true nature and character of the man is revealed."???? I can't honestly believe you offer that in any way other than jest. If you're indeed serious here...well...Whew!....Have you ever had the blessing (or perhaps the curse) of a VERY sheltered life indeed 🙂 Oh well..at least I didn't suffer the true test of real character = Hitting my thumb with hammer 😉

Thanks for the grins. I must now call an old squadron buddy up, and a few other friends as well, for weekly chat updates...and inform them all of a recently stubbed toe, and how nobly I'm enduring "The crucible of adversity..." as a tragic result of that 😉 I must be properly thankful that it wasn't anything so dire and extreme as parking lot car damage...which would certainly test any man's soul to it's utmost...Sheesh! 😉 You've just gotta' be kiddin' with all this here...aren't you?

 

[luvn737s]

1) BoeingBoy: "I come from a generation that experienced Vietnam winding down where one couldn't automatically expect to move from a military cockpit to a civilian cockpit."

"...move from a military cockpit to a civilian cockpit." Is there ANY, even remotely possible ambiguity within the contextual reference for that observation?...Seriously, ANY at all?

East-

Perhaps it's as hard for you to read simple English as it is for you to write it. "One" member of the generation Jim referred to does not necessarily mean himself.

When you yourself are coated in a thick layer of tar, trying to get it to stick on someone else just makes you look pathetic. And by "you", I of course mean you.

 

[luvn737s]

Your fellow pilots in this industry have an opportunity to regain some of what was bascially stolen from them in order to finance the purchase of regional jets (Mid Atlantic). Of course you weren't there,
so you don't have a freakin clue as to what transpired. But, of course, you are gonna get in your cheap shot while you can. DH! Over the years, as you mature, you will learn that anything that benefits a pilot in this industry is a victory.....until then, you are just a pawn.

You must be very junior in this industry and have no idea as to the magnatude of the ups and downs in trying to ride out a career.

I think you know what I mean as far as losing respect for you at this point. You don't have a clue here and are out of line.

breeze

Fixed it for you

 

[EastUS1]

"One" member of the generation Jim referred to does not necessarily mean himself.

Ok....So just explain the following, if you think you're up to adequately spinning it all away:

"...move from a military cockpit to a civilian cockpit." Is there ANY, even remotely possible ambiguity within the contextual reference for that observation?...Seriously, ANY at all?

2) "As if you ever strapped into a military cockpit". Again; Is there ANY possible ambiguity in the contextual reference there?

3) BoeingBoy: "LOL You have no idea what cockpits I've strappen into."

What reasonable purpose, if not to attempt deception and overt misrepresentation, was even possibly served by 3)?

Start spinning at your earliest convenience...and good luck with it.