June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[jetjok1]

Well said...

You pretty much spelled out the way I feel.

I agree with most of what you said. Just remember ........the cleary thing did not have full support of ALL East pilots......and I'm tired of hearing the likes of Nic for us, clear, fodase.....to name a few.....continuing to bash and trash ALL East pilots.

 

[EastUS1]

One does not need to sacrifice his honor in the face of adversity. It is under adversity that one's true character will be revealed, whether strong and honorable or weak and detestable.

How grandiose indeed...."strong and honorable or weak and detestable"....Sigh! You just can't make this sort of "stuff" up: "...honor in the face of adversity."? This is merely a labor group dispute. What dire level of "adversity" are you suggesting or even imagining here? It takes nothing "strong and honorable" to just hire some smarmy lawyers for either side. Get over yourself already...sheesh!

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I agree with most of what you said. Just remember ........the cleary thing did not have full support of ALL East pilots......and I'm tired of hearing the likes of Nic for us, clear, fodase.....to name a few.....continuing to bash and trash ALL East pilots.

I'd trade that for what I get to live with. All anyone east has to listen to are a few lousy web posts from who the hell knows who. On the other hand, for my lousy web post, I'm out thousands and thousands of dollars, and living from here on into eternity via google as an accused Racketeer. Even my own brother googled my name to see if what I told him was the 'whole story' way back when. What if I go try to find another job? What if a potential lady friend googles my name? After all, usapa wouldn't have just named anyone, if there wasn't at least 'something to it.' Well, yes they would have, but I digress....

I know an east pilot who was trying to stop that nonsense when some of my own fellow west pilots were doubting me. Not to mention the west pilot who forwarded a host of posts to usapa. Believe me, I know all east pilots are not the same. I'd rather live with what you do than what I do.

I've read your posts, I think you are an ok sort. I'm not trying to jump on you, just giving my little slant on things, that's all.

 

[cleardirect]

Clear,

Ya know, I have tried to respect your opinion over the last year, you make some good points, off and on.

However, you just can't seem to cover up your bitterness, and it is way too extreme. Maybe you were an abused step-child, but most of your posts are over the line. This justice doesn't even affect you, but you have to be an azzhole about it. You claim to have a line on the legal aspects of things, but this is nothing you have a clue about.

Your fellow pilots in this industry have an opportunity to regain some of what was bascially stolen from them in order to finance the purchase of regional jets (Mid Atlantic). Of course you weren't there, so you don't have a freakin clue as to what transpired. But, of course, you are gonna get in your cheap shot while you can. DH! Over the years, as you mature, you will learn that anything that benefits a pilot in this industry is a victory.....until then, you are just a pawn.

You must be very junior in this industry and have no idea as to the magnatude of the ups and downs in trying to ride out a career.

I think you know what I mean as far as losing respect for you at this point. You don't have a clue here and are out of line.

breeze

Wow so angry. Were you expecting something from this investigation or are you on the committee? What is making you so angry about my comments? The fact that you realize that you have been lead down the path? That you wasted 3 years and all that money for nothing. That another group of union leaders used your emotional need to blame someone against you? Could it be the fact that the pension committee is just another brick in that wall of lies that usapa was going to be a more transparent and honest union but has turned out to be far worse than ALPA ever was?

My pointing out that the pension committee is full of crap should not make you mad at me it should make you angry at the guys lying to you. But so far I have never seen you guys hold your union leadership accountable. It was you east pilots that let Mike Cleary run wild and did nothing to stop him. Because as long as he was attacking the west and screaming DOH you let him run usapa into the ground. But hey who needs respect as a union when you can file a law suit.

If you are so well informed and the committee is making so much progress how about telling us what they have accomplished for $3.5 million so far? Three judges have denied your request for a new trustee. This last judge has denied summary judgment. He is not going to make a ruling until the PBGC submits their report in September. The assessment ends this year and there is not enough money for a trial. What has been the return on investment so far?

First I do have a clue, probably more than you do. You see I have read all of the filings and transcripts and have an unemotional detachment from the situation. Have you read all of the filings not just the few usapa posts or the light on facts updates?

Second your pension was not stolen unless you consider poor management, and a weak airline having it stolen. Bankruptcy took your pension. I don’t need to be there I read the LOA 93 transcripts. Maybe when you mature and get past listening to crew room rumor and emotional fantasy about what someone thinks happens you might be more than a pawn.

I don’t give a damn if you respect me or not. Your opinion of me carries no weight what so ever. So if I am being an azzhole that is simply because the east culture has unfortunately rubbed off on me. After 7 years of dealing with “you people” I have gotten to know a segment of the population that I wish I had never met.

So since you guys don’t seem to want to hold your new “union” to the standard they promised I am going to continue to point out the lies and obfuscation they throw out to you blind east pilots.

 

[EastCheats]

I agree with most of what you said. Just remember ........the cleary thing did not have full support of ALL East pilots......and I'm tired of hearing the likes of Nic for us, clear, fodase.....to name a few.....continuing to bash and trash ALL East pilots.

I flew with East pilots in a previous life before you were an Easthole and I was a Westicle. It did not have to be this way.

 

[BoeingBoy]

yourself established the contextual reference to be military aviation during the Viet Nam war.

A contextual reference for pilots leaving the military as Vietnam ended, certainly, but not for me. That's something you dreamed up all by your lonesome. (I tried to give you an out by suggesting a dictionary, but you wouldn't take the hint)

contrived and utterly pathetic tap dance.;;;such sorry behavior...an infantile attempt to cloud the issue...some fantasized status...LYING

Making baseless charges - something you excel at...

I know what planes you've NEVER "strappen into", as do you

I certainly do, although I doubt very seriously that you do - perhaps you'd furnish a list of all the planes I've never "strappen into" (whatever "strappen" is...)

Jim

 

[mrbreeze]

Wow so angry. Were you expecting something from this investigation or are you on the committee? What is making you so angry about my comments?

Spew all that vile that you want...it's kinda like sweating out the toxins in your body.

I am not angry, just disappointed in the way that you take aim at anything that might better the lifestyle of any pilot in this industry, regardless of their employment, political affiliation, or point of view......bottom line is that they are just working pilots making the best of a bad situation.

No, Clear, this is not about USAPA.....It's about your nasty attitude and you would rather see any one of the East pilots maimed in a car wreck on their way home from work than be able to even think a thought about being senior to you.

IT'S YOUR ATTITUDE THAT STINKS!!!!!

breeze

 

[BoeingBoy]

Republic and Air Wisconsin both offered exit financing in February, 2005. By then, unfortunately, Lakefield and Parker were already in talks, so those two companies were put off.

Wrong - AIr Wisconsin contributed DIP financing (125 million) and Republic agreed to give equity financing (another 125 million) upon bankruptcy exit, both before the merger agreement was announced. Republic's 125 million was in addition to buying the E170's and slots. When the merger brought the other outside investors into the picture, they agreed to more per share than Republic or AirWisconsin did. Air Wisconsin had already provided the DIP financing and it had been spent, so there was no giving that money back - thus Air Wisconsin's money converted to equity financing upon bankruptcy exit. However, since Republic had NOT put in their equity financing, US (LCC) declined to take Republic's money so the other outside investors could get a better deal.

The "second" option keeps being brought up. Initially, the plan was to convert to a low-cost carrier but as the money dwindled Lakefield realized that there wasn't money or time to accomplish that and the search for a merger partner ensued. Parker was the only CEO that agreed, after turning Lakefield down in mid-2004. The only other option was liquidation at that point. The Judge even set aside a period for other offers and none materialized.

Jim

 

[Move2CLT]

No liquidation took place. How's the view up there from Dumbo in Fantasyland these days? Nevermind....we all know that, ahem.."We saved you!" is an essential part of any fantasies involving the "justification" for nic......I've always wondered what people constituted the "We" part though....? In any case: How well is that "logic" working with the APA these days?

You've got a better view I'm sure considering you've been in fantasy mode for many years now.

Ok. Read this slowly now and it's ok if you mouth the words:

You didn't liquidate because you were bought. And the deal had to happen a month earlier than planned because US Air didn't have the cash to make it.

Go over that a few times so it sinks in.

 

[Move2CLT]

Republic and Air Wisconsin both offered exit financing in February, 2005. By then, unfortunately, Lakefield and Parker were already in talks, so those two companies were put off.

Bzzzzzt

Wrong.

 

[mrbreeze]

I don’t give a damn if you respect me or not.

OK, Clear,

Here is an example.....

Just this morning I was coming home. When I got on the terminal train at DIA, coming from B concourse to the main terminal, there was this causually dressed business man (blue jeans and a white shirt) who was the first guy to board the train. He stepped on the train and stopped at the door, disregarding about 20 passengers who had to work their way around him to board the train, while the doors were closing. Instead of being thoughtful toward his fellow human beings and moving on deeper into the train, he took care of himself....totally oblivious to "his fellow pilots"......oops, I meant his fellow human beings. It was all about him.

That is your attitude, Clear.

breeze

 

[Move2CLT]

5000 +'s!!!!!!

I'd like to thank my mom for having me, all may fans, and most of all those easties that have the courage to PM me and apologize for the situation their fellow east pilots have put all of us in.

On to 10K!

 

[EastUS1]

A contextual reference for pilots leaving the military as Vietnam ended, certainly, but not for me. That's something you dreamed up all by your lonesome. (I tried to give you an out by suggesting a dictionary, but you wouldn't take the hint)

Making baseless charges - something you excel at...

I certainly do, although I doubt very seriously that you do - perhaps you'd furnish a list of all the planes I've never "strappen into" (whatever "strappen" is...)

Jim

Stop all this pathetic squirming and explain this all in ANY manner, that makes your original and subsequent BS make even the slightest bit of sense then:

1) BoeingBoy: "I come from a generation that experienced Vietnam winding down where one couldn't automatically expect to move from a military cockpit to a civilian cockpit."

"...move from a military cockpit to a civilian cockpit." Is there ANY, even remotely possible ambiguity within the contextual reference for that observation?...Seriously, ANY at all?

2) "As if you ever strapped into a military cockpit". Again; Is there ANY possible ambiguity in the contextual reference there?

3) BoeingBoy: "LOL You have no idea what cockpits I've strappen into."

What am I supposedly missing here? The unambiguous nature of the conversation's "military cockpit" meaning actual Service?

BBoy: "A contextual reference for pilots leaving the military as Vietnam ended, certainly, but not for me."
You've a rather strange way of establishing "certainly, but not for me." FYI...."LOL You have no idea what cockpits I've strappen into" however surprisingly, falls "somewhat" short of establishing "certainly, but not for me."

BoeingBoy: "I come from a generation that experienced Vietnam winding down where one couldn't automatically expect to move from a military cockpit to a civilian cockpit." Uh Huh...but of course said "military cockpit" reference/context/etc....magically lost all meaning within your cute little "LOL" reply, one must now suppose?

BBoy: "(whatever "strappen" is...) One can only wonder, but that's a direct quote, as spelled, from your original posting.
"(I tried to give you an out" How so very generous of you indeed, but you're clearly the one suffering from the lack of any reasonable "out" here.

Keep pathetically squirming if you still feel some sick need to do so...I'm done with your sorry case....You're just not worth wasting any more time on.

 

[EastUS1]

Go over that a few times so it sinks in.

No liquidation took place....Period. Go over that as many times as needed for it to sink in. Further contemplation is suggested on that pesky "Reality Thing". Perhaps your life would be greatly improved by sometimes stepping outside Fantasyland and taking a look around 😉

 

[EastUS1]

I'd trade that for what I get to live with. All anyone east has to listen to are a few lousy web posts from who the hell knows who. On the other hand, for my lousy web post, I'm out thousands and thousands of dollars, and living from here on into eternity via google as an accused Racketeer.

For what little it's worth LS?...I can only say that I considered the severe nature of what happened, via the legal assault, to be wrong on too many levels to count. This never should have happened to people who's only "crime" was web chat and such nonsense, just for starters....not that my thoughts make anything better for those who got stomped on for basically nothing.