Kiosk and Tempe not in sync......

[SparrowHawk]

My pie hole is usually closed when I’m typing on a keyboard, but thanks for the reminder. 😱

This is a classic redirection. You don't like the content of my message so you want to switch from discussing the cost/benefit of EDS outsourcing vs. insourcing and now discuss the business reputations of the firms? Since the US/HP merger HP (Hewlett -Packard) bought out EDS so the old reputation of EDS is totally irrelevant. The fact that EDS couldn’t pull off the Sabre/SHARES RES migration as promised puts a pretty big scare on their business reputation just like it did to the public’s perception of US regarding the same.

It has nothing to do with the message per se. What it does have to do with the trust and credibility of the parties involved. I trust EDS when they speak and perform. There is no external verification of EDS's performance during the Res Migration although if they had failed so miserably one would think US would have filed suit seeking untold millions in damages and costs. They didn't so your argument holds no water with me. Furthermore if EDS were such incompetents then US would have exercised its right to cancellation for non-performance.

The reason you are not believed by me and possibly others is that the Management Team at US Airways by virtue of the openly anti customer remarks has either strained or eliminated their credibility. No Trust = No Credibility! Put another way, when I read a Press Release regarding US, I work backward from the basic assumption that it's a bald faced lie designed to obfuscate their true agenda.

Further US Airways was the supervisory entity during the Res Migration. If as you imply the ball was being dropped by EDS then US Airways NOT EDS would have had the decision making ability to postpone the migration until things were ready. If the vendor didn't perform as required it's the responsibility of the supervising entity to take approprite steps to bring the supplier into compliance or find a contractor who can execute the scope of work in a correct and timely fashion. The fault/blame falls squarely at the feet of US Management as it had the duty to enforce the terms of the contract.

Trust me I've had my assets roasted for non compliance more times than I care to share and liking the message is neither here nor there. Failure to perform is ultimately the fault of the party who hired the non performing contractor and subsequently failed to monitor, direct & inspect their performance and compliance with the terms and conditions set forth in said contract.

No escape for Parker, Kirby, Beery et al, The buck stops where the big bucks are paid out. At the Top.

 

[CallawayGolf]

It has nothing to do with the message per se. What it does have to do with the trust and credibility of the parties involved. I trust EDS when they speak and perform. There is no external verification of EDS's performance during the Res Migration although if they had failed so miserably one would think US would have filed suit seeking untold millions in damages and costs. They didn't so your argument holds no water with me. Furthermore if EDS were such incompetents then US would have exercised its right to cancellation for non-performance.

The reason you are not believed by me and possibly others is that the Management Team at US Airways by virtue of the openly anti customer remarks has either strained or eliminated their credibility. No Trust = No Credibility! Put another way, when I read a Press Release regarding US, I work backward from the basic assumption that it's a bald faced lie designed to obfuscate their true agenda.

Further US Airways was the supervisory entity during the Res Migration. If as you imply the ball was being dropped by EDS then US Airways NOT EDS would have had the decision making ability to postpone the migration until things were ready. If the vendor didn't perform as required it's the responsibility of the supervising entity to take approprite steps to bring the supplier into compliance or find a contractor who can execute the scope of work in a correct and timely fashion. The fault/blame falls squarely at the feet of US Management as it had the duty to enforce the terms of the contract.

Trust me I've had my assets roasted for non compliance more times than I care to share and liking the message is neither here nor there. Failure to perform is ultimately the fault of the party who hired the non performing contractor and subsequently failed to monitor, direct & inspect their performance and compliance with the terms and conditions set forth in said contract.

No escape for Parker, Kirby, Beery et al, The buck stops where the big bucks are paid out. At the Top.

Where to begin? Well first off, I never said EDS was incompetent or entirely responsible for the failures of the res migration. I said they played a heavy role in the management of the project. Legacy US used Sabre (EDS supported not USAIT), the failed kiosks after the migration were all east devices (supported by EDS), the guy who came in to manage the migration was a highly compensated EDS res systems expert who had done multiple full-scale migrations in the past. He was touted as one of the best in the business to complete this task successfully. US management didn’t do the migration on the cheap. They hired the best EDS had to offer and paid untold sums of money to make sure it was a success. Now it is also true that EDS partnered up with USAIT counterparts who equally held responsibility to ensure the project was a success. That’s why I said the failure was at least 50% EDS’ fault (not 100%) and this likely prevented US from taking any action against EDS because it was more of a partnership than a sole-source effort. Just because you try to put words in my posts that I didn’t write doesn’t mean that I said them or that they are true.

Speaking of truth. It has been said that the only know barrier to discovering the truth is to believe that you already have it. If you start with the premise as you suggest, then you are your own barrier to receiving facts and truth. It may make you happy to spew hatred and falsehoods, but it by no means gives your message credibility when you claim that your mind is closed off from receiving the truth.

Oh, and since you claim US management are known liars, would you care to post an example of such? I’m not talking about someone making a statement of what they think the future will hold and then having to change their words later, or someone unintentionally saying something that isn’t wholly true. I’m asking for an example of a genuine, indisputable lie. Since I do not claim to posses all knowledge, I am genuinely curious to know if a bona fide event can be cited where the speaker knew what they were saying was a lie but claimed it to be true in order to deceive someone. Thanks.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Oh, and since you claim US management are known liars, would you care to post an example of such? I’m not talking about someone making a statement of what they think the future will hold and then having to change their words later, or someone unintentionally saying something that isn’t wholly true. I’m asking for an example of a genuine, indisputable lie. Since I do not claim to posses all knowledge, I am genuinely curious to know if a bona fide event can be cited where the speaker knew what they were saying was a lie but claimed it to be true in order to deceive someone. Thanks.

I could, but sinceI 'm NOT privy to the details or the specifics, you'll have to hope he sees this and posts the specifics.

Now one could call Scott Kirby's assertations that the Res Migration was "Going as well as could be expected" an outright lie given his knowledge of the situation. I prefer to look upon that as typical "Spin" which if you think about it is nothing more than a lie in pretty wrapper.

Upon further review Scott Kirby's responses on the Migration do rise to meet your criteria although it's alot like Watergate in a "What did he kanow & When did he know it" sense. Knowing what I knew was happening and then hearing his comments I can't for minute fathom that if I as a customer knew the poop was on the fan, how could he not know? Then of course he comes forth with his statement and I think the word LIAR is not only justified but well earned.

As to your other point regarding barriers. There is a legal concept known as "False in one, False in all" when evaluating witness testimony. Due to US's continued Anti-Customer/Employee approach to business ,I choose to evaluate their statements as "False in all". When you have lost the trust of your employees and your elites then you've lost credibility and there are days when I can't help but wonder if this lack of credibility with Customers/Employees is dripping over into the investment community, perhaps making it more expensive or difficult to borrow money? I've no idea, however Wall Street doesn't reside in a plastic bubble.

This Management Team uses words like Honor, Integrity, Trust, Credibility as punchlines to the joke that US Airways has become.

 

[Dog Wonder]

How about Kirby saying this week at the Future of Aviation Conference 2008 and 2009 were the most 'traumatic' years in aviation history.

Was he in aviation on 9/11?

A ridiculous attempt to downplay the failures on his watch by exaggerating the challenges.

But then, this is the same guy who called the SHARES conversion a 'resounding success'.

Was that a lie?

 

[CallawayGolf]

I could, but sinceI 'm NOT privy to the details or the specifics, you'll have to hope he sees this and posts the specifics.

Now one could call Scott Kirby's assertations that the Res Migration was "Going as well as could be expected" an outright lie given his knowledge of the situation. I prefer to look upon that as typical "Spin" which if you think about it is nothing more than a lie in pretty wrapper.

Upon further review Scott Kirby's responses on the Migration do rise to meet your criteria although it's alot like Watergate in a "What did he kanow & When did he know it" sense. Knowing what I knew was happening and then hearing his comments I can't for minute fathom that if I as a customer knew the poop was on the fan, how could he not know? Then of course he comes forth with his statement and I think the word LIAR is not only justified but well earned.

As to your other point regarding barriers. There is a legal concept known as "False in one, False in all" when evaluating witness testimony. Due to US's continued Anti-Customer/Employee approach to business ,I choose to evaluate their statements as "False in all". When you have lost the trust of your employees and your elites then you've lost credibility and there are days when I can't help but wonder if this lack of credibility with Customers/Employees is dripping over into the investment community, perhaps making it more expensive or difficult to borrow money? I've no idea, however Wall Street doesn't reside in a plastic bubble.

This Management Team uses words like Honor, Integrity, Trust, Credibility as punchlines to the joke that US Airways has become.

Okay we can use that example. What did it gain Kirby to “lie†about the status of the Res migration? He later admitted it was premature and a mistake to make that claim when he did. He and Doug and many others have all taken full responsibility for the “botched migrationâ€. What more could any human being do to own up to the mistake? I’m the one saying that EDS play a part in this because the original post I replied to claimed that the old IT organization (EDS) was so much better than what we have today. I was merely pointing out that both perceptions are not entirely reflective of reality.

Back to the Kirby “lieâ€. Again it really is a matter of perspective. If you looked at the situation on the mainframe it did go very well. A very high percentage of PNRs migrated successfully which was a huge concern to both US and EDS. If you look at the operations of most (certainly not all) of the stations other than CLT they managed the migration to the new system relatively well (CSRs may not have been happy and I gather some still aren’t) but the project milestones were successfully met. The overwhelming number of status checks and built-in fail safes reported no failures at cutover. In PHX and LAS local media reporters were invited in to observe the workings of the project command center during the critical phases. They all went home in the wee hours of the morning stating there was really nothing to report - it was a non-event. It was in the midst of this atmosphere that Scott sent out the message to employees saying that the migration had gone well.

Of course some of the east kiosks began to fail in the early moring hours and EDS assured Beery and Kirby that the issue would be resolved promptly. It wasn’t until later that it was discovered that the old kiosks had suffered an irrecoverable error as a result of the migration and that employees and passengers, mostly in CLT, were experiencing catastrophic delays. Management responded with all of the resources they could muster to put operations back on track. Had they known or even had a reasonable expectation that this may occur, the cut over would have absolutely been handled differently.

So, yes, I see the veracity of your claim that Scott is a liar and by implication so is everyone at US. However, your charges simply don’t stand up to scrutiny when compared against the facts, but I’m sure the facts are just little annoyances that impede your quest to denigrate people you don’t particularly care for.

 

[CallawayGolf]

How about Kirby saying this week at the Future of Aviation Conference 2008 and 2009 were the most 'traumatic' years in aviation history.

Was he in aviation on 9/11?

A ridiculous attempt to downplay the failures on his watch by exaggerating the challenges.

But then, this is the same guy who called the SHARES conversion a 'resounding success'.

Was that a lie?

Have you compared the industry declines in PAX bookings and yields from 2001 and 2002 in comparison to 2008 and 2009? When you do, can you tell me which two-year period was worse for the industry? Here's a hint - in which of those two periods did WN reduce their growth forecasts and trim their overall operations/capacity?

 

[Dog Wonder]

Have you compared the industry declines in PAX bookings and yields from 2001 and 2002 in comparison to 2008 and 2009?

In some people's minds bookings and yields cause trauma.

In other people's minds traumatic is about airplanes flying into buildings.

 

[CallawayGolf]

In some people's minds bookings and yields cause trauma.

In other people's minds traumatic is about airplanes flying into buildings.

Yes, and I'm sure those in the Future of Aviation Conference audience were fully expecting Scott Kirby to focus his presentation on the horrific events of 9/11. So that too makes him a liar? Could you reach further into the world of obscurity and irrelevance to to the topic at hand to try and make your point about the man's character?

 

[Dog Wonder]

Yes, and I'm sure those in the Future of Aviation Conference audience were fully expecting Scott Kirby to focus his presentation on the horrific events of 9/11. So that too makes him a liar? Could you reach further into the world of obscurity and irrelevance to to the topic at hand to try and make your point about the man's character?

Kirby was the one talking about traumatic years in aviation history. Maybe it better illustrates he has no soul.

How 'bout that 'resounding succes' of SHARES conversion. Was that a lie?

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

How 'bout that 'resounding succes' of SHARES conversion. Was that a lie?

maybe just optimism? 🙄

 

[SparrowHawk]

Full Responsibility to me means Resigning in disgrace!

Anybody at US resign?

Didn't think so and this is one of the reasons Asian Companies perform better. If an event like this had occurred at a Japanese company NO ONE would have been fired because there equivelent to Scary Joe Beery would have resigned in disgrace, perhaps even the CEO & President as well.

Does it really matter? If you have to ask that then you've proven my point. A lie that does no harm is still a lie and goes directly to the point of Trust & Credibility. Not to mention Honor & Integrity.

Did the lie matter in the overall scheme of fixing the issues??? NO, it did not!
Did the lie demonstrate the character or lack thereof of those involved? YES they did?

There is a saying from the Dutch that translates roughly into "Trust arrives on foot and leaves on horseback" The fact that Kirby graduated from the Air Force Academy makes his conduct even more reprehensible as he of all people should know better.In the Military Character Counts and you don't knowingly lie as Kirby has done. Maybe that's why he didn't continue his military career? Being from the Viet Nam era as I am I can pretty much guarantee he would have been fragged in a heartbeat if he ended up in country. You don't pull this shite when your troops lives are at stake.

FACT: The Res Migration was a FAILURE
FACT: Scott Kirby knowingly LIED
FACT: Customers paid for US Airways incompetence in lost time etc etc.
FACT: Once trust is lost it takes a long time to rebuild
FACT: I don't believe their apologies to be sincere. Compare them to the head of Comair when the res system crashed and he offered to resign and DL said no.
FACT: Perception IS reality and you know my perception.
FACT: US Airways is the name on the boarding pass, NOT EDS, so as a customer I'll not play the blame game. US botched the migration end of story

Since the Merger I've met exactly TWO people at the level of Managing director and above that are genuinely good people who absolutely DO care about customers. There is also a lady in IT who I'd hire in a heartbeat that understands IT issues from the Customer perspective.

I am tired of a Management team that seeks to blame everyone else for their shortcomings. The "Dog ate my Homework" excuses are growing tiresome and SHARES is still a boat anchor. I've gotten that admission from one of the above two people I mentioned. The transaction time is on average 20 to 30 percent longer as are the number of keystrokes needed to complete a transction. The decision was penny wise and dollar foolish and privately your colleagues admit it.

I have a network of "Little Birdies" who give me all manner of information from the inside. Like Doug "This Bud's For Me" Parker stating that US "doesn't have to be great, just good enough" at a crew session. WTF kind of message is that to send to a customer oriented industry?

He shows his open comtempt by appearing in front of employees and doesn't even have the common sense to have his shirt tucked in! I've heard him described as being dressed like an unmade bed.

The evidence is overwhelming that US management can not be trusted by employees and customers

 

[john john]

If you look at the operations of most (certainly not all) of the stations other than CLT they managed the migration to the new system relatively well (CSRs may not have been happy and I gather some still aren’t) but the project milestones were successfully met. The overwhelming number of status checks and built-in fail safes reported no failures at cutover. In PHX and LAS local media reporters were invited in to observe the workings of the project command center during the critical phases. They all went home in the wee hours of the morning stating there was really nothing to report - it was a non-event. It was in the midst of this atmosphere that Scott sent out the message to employees saying that the migration had gone well.

I don’t know what plant you were on
http://www.cwa.net/news/page.jsp?itemID=28327042

Letter to Doug Parker from Larry Cohen and James P.Hoffa
March 12, 2007
CWA

March 12, 2007
Mr. Douglas Parker, Chariman & CEO
US Airways Group Inc.
111 West Rio Salada Parkway
Tempe, Arizona 85281

Dear Chairman Parker:
We are writing to express the serious concerns and frustrations coming from customer service agents – members of the Customer Service Employee Association CWA-IBT -- across the US Airways system and to urge you to take action by restoring needed staff positions and allowing our members to do what they do best: providing quality service to US Airways customers.
As you are well aware, this switchover – along with the malfunctioning kiosks -- caused an enormous amount of turmoil at airports across the system and particularly along the East Coast. This resulted in agents, who take pride in their professionalism and their ability to serve US Airways customers, being unable to do so, and in many cases, being
Sincerely,
Larry Cohen/President, CWA ~ James P. Hoffa/General President, IBT

http://www.cwa.net/news/page.jsp?itemID=28484993
You have seen what has been going on, this I know from the news reports; you keep expressing your concerns to the media about this huge Res migration screw up. It takes more then press and PR to fix this problem. The front line see it everyday and send a representative from each work group to these meetings to share the “real†reports from the customers and employees both. Not the “things are getting much better, sugar coated reports†from local management and regional directors. The employees of US Airways have felt a huge loss of dignity in the last few years and especially in the last two months. Their hard work, time, and energy has been devalued so much, before, during and after bankruptcy, all groups have given up so much to make this company survive,
The staffing has been an issue every time I come in here representing the front line, yet no one seems to listen. The “experts†are running the computer programs to figure out the gaps in staffing I am told. All you have to do is look around in any of the East Cities and see, the staffing is totally inadequate. You cannot put a band aid on it by asking agents from other locations to come in, put them up in hotels, (another expense which is ridiculous) and hope that the problem gets resolved. t is not just for the members of the CWA/IBT Association, it is for the sake of the customers and the stock holders that we come to this table to share with you our most urgent of issues and problems. We DO NOT want to see this company fail AGAIN. Believe me.

One of the hardest things lately the employee group has had to deal with is the news of the bonuses that Select executives may be getting. Who made the decision to go with this system and cut over WAY before the system was ready to handle an airline this size? HOW can someone be rewarded with making some of the worse decisions in recent years, in my opinion? A mistake is made above, the employee group bails them out each and every time, by working double shifts, not getting breaks and getting the customers anger and dissatisfaction directed at them each and everyday. The employee gets so little in return in comparison to the ones making these horrendous decisions. The profit sharing is very much skewed from our vantage point. Where does the buck stop?

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

I don’t know what plant you were on
http://www.cwa.net/news/page.jsp?itemID=28327042

Letter to Doug Parker from Larry Cohen and James P.Hoffa
March 12, 2007
CWA

March 12, 2007
Mr. Douglas Parker, Chariman & CEO
US Airways Group Inc.
111 West Rio Salada Parkway
Tempe, Arizona 85281

three years later, QIK/SHARES is still a steaming pile of manure.

 

[SparrowHawk]

three years later, QIK/SHARES is still a steaming pile of manure.

Perhaps we could create an acronym for QIK/SHARES??

We could call it the "Tempe Steamer" or TS for short.

Open to suggestions

 

[john john]

POS