Layoffs announced at AA

[jimntx]

Not really true Jim. The company would have to offer leaves prior to your idea of seasonal furloughs. Based on the time, planning and expense even without a furlough pay, that simply is not going to happen.

I find that level of naivete refreshing in someone who has been dealing with AMR and their puppy, the APFA, as long as you. As long as the company can show that whatever they do will not affect the flexibility of the senior f/as--aka, dropping every trip every month for years--the Blessed Order of the Perpetually Trip-Removed will do nothing other than kill trees printing those useless letters we are supposed to give our FSMs to protest the company's latest violation of the contract.

I just know my FSM will forward it to Lauri--not. If I were to waste the effort to give it to her, she would do what I just did with that stupid letter....throw it in the trash.

If the company can find a legal way around the Federal WARN act as they did in April, I'm sure they can find away around the APFA--invoke force majeure, for instance. Besides, I think we all know how concerned for the welfare of the furloughees the ones not affected will be in the future. The same as now...not one whit. There will be an side letter of agreement to allow the company to offer OLOAs and partnership flying for, oh say, 24-48 hours, then furlough as long as the number being furloughed stays under the Federal, New York state, and Illinois radars.

Cynical? Moi? How could you say such a thing?

 

[galleyguy4u2]

If the Union had agreed to lower the ALV <Average Line Value> which they did in the last round of furloughs by two hours we would have avoided the first furlough. Now, if you lower the ALV by five hours you would avoid almost all furloughs. APFA said NO!!!!

Other airlines have done this and have avoided furlough. I know this works as I have been around for 23 years. APFA does not accept the by-pass option which would allow those on leave to simply by-pass and wait until the most junior person is recalled. So what is wrong with this picture?

I know of no other airline that has furloughed or at least had voluntary FUR with full benefits and unlimited recall rights. In fact some major airlines are hiring off the street. APFA is a complete joke of a Union. LG & Anne Lowe are in the hot seat now. May Day was supposed to be pay day. What month is this? LOL

Now you have 1,258 f/a's on the chopping block in addition to the rest that remain on the street.
Unity, give me a break. You will have none.

 

[Flyboy4u]

If the Union had agreed to lower the ALV <Average Line Value> which they did in the last round of furloughs by two hours we would have avoided the first furlough. Now, if you lower the ALV by five hours you would avoid almost all furloughs. APFA said NO!!!!

Other airlines have done this and have avoided furlough. I know this works as I have been around for 23 years. APFA does not accept the by-pass option which would allow those on leave to simply by-pass and wait until the most junior person is recalled. So what is wrong with this picture?

I know of no other airline that has furloughed or at least had voluntary FUR with full benefits and unlimited recall rights. In fact some major airlines are hiring off the street. APFA is a complete joke of a Union. LG & Anne Lowe are in the hot seat now. May Day was supposed to be pay day. What month is this? LOL

Now you have 1,258 f/a's on the chopping block in addition to the rest that remain on the street.
Unity, give me a break. You will have none.

Galleyguy4u2

I couldnt have said it better myself...Those who are subject to furlough now, and those who disagree with what's going on are now calling the PayComp at AA and demanding all APFA dues to be discontinued Immediately....Why pay for a "UNION" when you can use the money now...This is NOT a UNION, but a total scam!!...Get rid of the APFA and Demand your money which is YOURS!!

 

[galleyguy4u2]

FlyBoy, I remember when you were recalled and I was really happy for you. You have been a prolific poster here and your comments have been very much appreciated.....at least by me.

 

[FA Mikey]

I find that level of naivete refreshing in someone who has been dealing with AMR and their puppy, the APFA, as long as you. As long as the company can show that whatever they do will not affect the flexibility of the senior f/as--aka, dropping every trip every month for years--the Blessed Order of the Perpetually Trip-Removed will do nothing other than kill trees printing those useless letters we are supposed to give our FSMs to protest the company's latest violation of the contract.

I just know my FSM will forward it to Lauri--not. If I were to waste the effort to give it to her, she would do what I just did with that stupid letter....throw it in the trash.

What can I say. Do nothing, gain nothing. People laughed when the APFA started the pins and wings campaign. We took some of our best Dallas Dollies from looking like 4 star generals to a to a union pin and there wings. Something so small netted a big reaction from the airports to CP2 and then CP5. When we did the first luggage tag turn around campaign, they again took notice. When 15,000 or more people all do something together and in unison. They all notice.

If the company can find a legal way around the Federal WARN act as they did in April, I'm sure they can find away around the APFA--invoke force majeure, for instance. Besides, I think we all know how concerned for the welfare of the furloughees the ones not affected will be in the future. The same as now...not one whit. There will be an side letter of agreement to allow the company to offer OLOAs and partnership flying for, oh say, 24-48 hours, then furlough as long as the number being furloughed stays under the Federal, New York state, and Illinois radars.

Cynical? Moi? How could you say such a thing?

More than cynical Jim. The things you are dreaming up are so out there, the odds of it happening are infinitesimal. Your idea of seasonal furloughs are so out there partly because they cannot ramp up and down flying like that. There are not that many seasonal markets that they could pull in and out of. They need airport approval, gate and counter space or someone who can have the people available to train. They cannot have that many planes sitting doing nothing in the down time as well as pilots, who cannot be shuffled or cross trained like the FA's.

 

[FA Mikey]

If the Union had agreed to lower the ALV <Average Line Value> which they did in the last round of furloughs by two hours we would have avoided the first furlough. Now, if you lower the ALV by five hours you would avoid almost all furloughs. APFA said NO!!!!

I was not aware that the company came to APFA with that offer of lower lines by 5 hours, is that true? The wonderful heart felt proposal came last time from the company who in there caring hearts chose to circumvent the WARN rules and drop 400 people in a few days VS 30.

If it were up to me, I would be against doing that based on the fact that I would not be willing to offer anything that would cut my pay forever. Then require me to bargain for it back by changing some other work rules, or hourly pay when things turn around. If the company really cared and came to the union with a serious workable proposal, that included snap backs. I think it could be sold to the membership. The truth is AA doesnt bargain like that.

Other airlines have done this and have avoided furlough. I know this works as I have been around for 23 years. APFA does not accept the by-pass option which would allow those on leave to simply by-pass and wait until the most junior person is recalled. So what is wrong with this picture?

This airline has not been in the furlough business since the 70's. This is new to us and we have yet to get a CBA with the company that could address those very things. Knowing AA, they would want someones first born for the ability of a person to bypass on furlough or a PLOA list.

I know of no other airline that has furloughed or at least had voluntary FUR with full benefits and unlimited recall rights. In fact some major airlines are hiring off the street. APFA is a complete joke of a Union. LG & Anne Lowe are in the hot seat now. May Day was supposed to be pay day. What month is this? LOL

Not for long. Usair need to drop 400 FA's and Delta is getting ready to post how many people they need to drop as well.

Now you have 1,258 f/a's on the chopping block in addition to the rest that remain on the street.
Unity, give me a break. You will have none.

You have the righteous indignation, but you dont have a true workable plan to solve the dilemma. One that fits with the way AA negotiates. Your first integration with AA's negotiators was this. Pull the seniority language out of your contract or we will ask the judge to throw out the entire CBA. Think about that the next time you hear they have come to APFA with flowers and a plan to say the JR FA's jobs.

 

[Flyboy4u]

FlyBoy, I remember when you were recalled and I was really happy for you. You have been a prolific poster here and your comments have been very much appreciated.....at least by me.

I thank you for that post Gallyeguy...Finally someone with a brain on here understands what is going on...Again I say...If you are subject to furlough now, or disagree with what is going on with this "so called" union...Call pay comp at AA and DEMAND ...All APFA dues cease Immediately..This is not a Union but a business taking your money....I have tried all day now to get through and the lines are jammed...Goodluck to us All!

 

[Ralph]

A reminder: No personal attacks or comments about other posters. Discuss the issues. Posts which are directed at a poster rather than their post will be deleted without further comment. Time off will be given if the practice persists.

 

[FA Mikey]

.If you are subject to furlough now, or disagree with what is going on with this "so called" union...Call pay comp at AA and DEMAND ...All APFA dues cease Immediately.

You will not be able to do it over the phone. A quick reaction is seldom the best move. You might want to check your contract article 31 before you continue on.

 

[galleyguy4u2]

Mikey, I will be at the Union meeting in MIA along with others and will ask questions. Unfortunately I will not be allowed in the Union meeting in SLT because it will be held behind security and I am furloughed. I am a member in good standing and many of us that were formerly based in SLT cannot attend. APFA could have rented any hotel conference room at a low price. Oh, I forgot about their LHR visit. LOL

Mikey, fyi this is not a personal attack. Just stating my opinion.

 

[Skymess]

Mikey, I will be at the Union meeting in MIA along with others and will ask questions. Unfortunately I will not be allowed in the Union meeting in SLT because it will be held behind security and I am furloughed. I am a member in good standing and many of us that were formerly based in SLT cannot attend. APFA could have rented any hotel conference room at a low price. Oh, I forgot about their LHR visit. LOL

Mikey, fyi this is not a personal attack. Just stating my opinion.

Good point about the LHR visit and hotel stay.

There has to be a way for them to get you guys into that meeting. People are allowed to rent meeting rooms at the Admirals Clubs who aren't travelling and clear security so there has to be a way to allow you to attend a union meeting beyond security. Have you called the APFA to ask?

 

[galleyguy4u2]

Hi Sky Mess, our Chair & V.C. have requested a change of venue but to no avail thus far.

 

[FA Mikey]

Mikey, I will be at the Union meeting in MIA along with others and will ask questions. Unfortunately I will not be allowed in the Union meeting in SLT because it will be held behind security and I am furloughed. I am a member in good standing and many of us that were formerly based in SLT cannot attend. APFA could have rented any hotel conference room at a low price. Oh, I forgot about their LHR visit. LOL

Mikey, fyi this is not a personal attack. Just stating my opinion.

I look forward to hearing what is said. I am glad the base chair is trying to get things done for you all in STL. I am surprised at AA allowing union meetings on there property.

 

[FWAAA]

Mikey, I will be at the Union meeting in MIA along with others and will ask questions. Unfortunately I will not be allowed in the Union meeting in SLT because it will be held behind security and I am furloughed.

So do what I do when I want to access the sterile area: go to aa.com and buy a full fare refundable ticket to someplace cheap for the last flight of the day. Print your boarding pass online and go to the meeting. While at the meeting, change your mind about your trip. Before departure time, call to cancel or go online to cancel the ticket and begin the refund process.

 

[onthedock]

Good point about the LHR visit and hotel stay.

There has to be a way for them to get you guys into that meeting. People are allowed to rent meeting rooms at the Admirals Clubs who aren't travelling and clear security so there has to be a way to allow you to attend a union meeting beyond security. Have you called the APFA to ask?

Believe me, I'm not thrilled with my local, but are you saying the flt attendant union is holding meetings that the flt attendants cant even get to?