Logic Vs. Emotion

[USA320Pilot]

Dear Fellow Employee:

According to Dow Jones during today’s webcast US Airways chief executive officer Dave Siegel went so far as to encourage employees to leave the company if new work contracts aren't agreeable, rather than to fight the change. "If it doesn't work, I'd encourage you to support the change, and then go on and find something else," he said.

SpinDoc said: “Don't forget after voting "NO" to do the following:

1. Get in line at the unemployment office
2. Sell all of your assets to keep out of bankruptcy
3. Hope you have the skills that some other company can use
4. Pay for your next flight to visit family, friends, and to go on vacation
5. Pay for your own health benefits
6. Wait 6 months to 2 years to receive your pension (if you have one) while it is tied up in BK court
7. Change your phone number so that your fellow co-workers who don't want to be on the street won't hound you about your poor judgement

"It's better to have a job when you're trying to find another job," Siegel commented.

USA320Pilot: Burning the house down to the ground serves no useful purpose and only helps the competition, which is exactly what the true enemy wants. It’s better to look for another job with medical benefits and pay than without these important economic requirements for most of US Airways' employees, thus I agree with SpinDoc’s and Siegel’s comments above.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[ktflyhome]

UA320 Pilot: And just who is your Enemy? I hope you don't share a flight deck with one. And I certainly hope your F/A's in the Cabin are not. More importantly, I hope you don't look upon the Mechanics as an Enemy. Your comments as to the Enemy are perverse. Unless you mean Dave.

 

[AP Tech]

Dave has accomplished one thing and that is to get "most" of the employee's to band together against a common enemy!!!!!(GUESS WHO) h34r:

 

[Bud8EE]

Dear Fellow Employee:

During today’s webcast US Airways chief executive officer Dave Siegel went so far as to encourage employees to leave the company if new work contracts aren't agreeable, rather than to fight the change. "If it doesn't work, I'd encourage you to support the change, and then go on and find something else," he said. "It's better to have a job when you're trying to find another job."

SpinDoc said: “Don't forget after voting "NO" to do the following:

1. Get in line at the unemployment office
2. Sell all of your assets to keep out of bankruptcy
3. Hope you have the skills that some other company can use
4. Pay for your next flight to visit family, friends, and to go on vacation
5. Pay for your own health benefits
6. Wait 6 months to 2 years to receive your pension (if you have one) while it is tied up in BK court
7. Change your phone number so that your fellow co-workers who don't want to be on the street won't hound you about your poor judgement

"It's better to have a job when you're trying to find another job," Siegel commented.

USA320Pilot: Burning the house down to the ground serves no useful purpose and only helps the competition, which is exactly what the true enemy wants. It’s better to look for another job with medical benefits and pay than without these important economic requirements for most of US Airways' employees, thus I agree with SpinDoc’s and Siegel’s comments above.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Unfortunately the consistant message of your posts is "allow me to continue collecting a paycheck and have medical benifits". While that may not be stated in the exact words you use, repeating the same message with a fervant pitch speaks volumes that you are not truly worried about your fellow employees but yourself. Either that or there is an arrogance in your posting that suggests the rest of your fellow emplyees don't have the brainpower or objectibve ability to assess the situation and make competant decisions for themselves and their families. Either way you posts seem self serving or insulting. Is there any wonder why you recieve the reaction or type of responses on this board to your posting?

I doubt there is a single employee here that wan's to bring Airways down but just the opposite. I think to a person the employees of Airways want the airline to survive and thrive. Given the past practices and recent performance of the company and management most emplyees are leery of the possibility of throwing good money after bad. Each will have to decide for themselves wheter there is any more they are willing to contribute. Each will have their own litmus test in deciding these issues. They most likely central theme will be trust. Economic relief that may be considered by the unions will only be effective as the soundness of the businees plan, vision, and managements ability to organize, mnage it, motivate employees, and bring it to fuuition. In the absence of these items all it will do is buy a short period of time before the spiral tightens. Probably a very short time.

So what you may see as obstance, those who disagree with you see it as thoughtful consideration to the impact on themselves, their families, their profession and yes their company. Given the lackluster performance of management on many fronts to date the last thing anyone wants to do is destroy their working agreements simply to subsidize incompetance only to by months and enabling the demise of their company. What is the solution to this? In my estimation management has the same short window they keep alluding to for airways to change the corporate culture. They must respect current agreements and seek to enact change through negotiation instead of litigation/arbitration. They also must begin to enact elements of the plan that do not require employee participation as a sign of good faith and cofidence in the business plan they seek support of and relief for. They must be willing to allow for union participation in devising and implementation of the plan so they can seek to protect the interests of their membership and find ways to limit or prevent hardship. They also need to be contrite over land grabs and performance and present a team building atmosphere instead the same old elitest top down approach to dealing with labor. If they do these things along with selling the merits of their plan to the long term prosperity of Airways and eventual returns to the rank and file and that they are the linchpin to success, management "may" geet the cooperation they desire. If the timeline is as tight as they say I would imagine changes should start to become evident and speek to their truthfulness and committment in the next couple of weeks.

So in the future I would suggest that you consider that your fellow emplyees are using the intellect, experience and life lessons to consider the ramifications of their decisions just as you do. The same argument that you use to say emotion is overtaking judgement could be used in reverse. You may point fingers and accuse others of anger clouding their judgement and they could easily accuse you of fear clouding yours. That is unless you have already made up your mind that you are the supreme intellect in the rank and file and all others are wrong out of hand.

Before you quote analysts, advisors, unamaed sources, credit ratings and the words of management (that many have felt have been loose with the truth) to magnify the current finances of the company to support your argument consider what most are pondering in upcoming choices. The current managemet team has been here for two years(including a formal ch. 11 reorg) and wherever we are today we have been led here by them. That is at the root of the debate and consideration to any company requests. Since the same people are asking for their support in leading us into the future most want to see many of the things above begin to change. That and only that "may" and I emphasize the word may lead to the employees aiding the company. It better be evident the employees are part of the process instead of being considered part of the problem or I suggest you begin the job hunt now.

 

[PITbull]

Siegel is once again stating the obvious...."we want your contracts; not the employees"...line of BS.


So sick to death of hearing this same speech over and over again.

We have finally been defined today: We are going to be a LCC.

We are an obvious "liability" to this company after all these years that we all have sweated and worked damn hard to fight the competition and have the coMPANY still exist ....doesn't matter to this bunch. There sights are on the prize...BIG BUCKS IN FUTURE STOCK HOLDING BY RIDDING THEMSELVES OF OUR WORKING AGREEMENTS AND OF US. That was a disheartening speech by our CEO. Can't support a man who only wants employees under the age of 40, and employees he sees as all expendable and not part of the "product" that we produce... EXPERIENCE and SERVICE!

As you can attest by the webcast, Dave doesn't care about his current employees, he only cares about what you can do for him by handing over the contracts and saving his stock so he can become an incredible millionaire with a reputation of busting all unions from here to kingdom come!

I personally will not do this for his "glory" or his team.

There is no respect for employees OR human kind.

Our airline has been captured and we are nothing but hostages until they kill us one group at a time.
I am in agreement with one issue he posed...the members will have to decide this one. I've already taken a position, rank and file decide where they want that "bar" to be.

 

[delldude]

I HONESTLY FEEL TODAY DAVEY MADE THE BIGGEST MISCALCULATION OF HIS CAREER.

 

[Art at ISP]

USA320Pilot,

There is no doubt that changes need to be made. Labor has already given twice--workrule changes notwithstanding, I do not think it fair of labor to give AGAIN until the company makes the other changes that they know have to be made.

I have stated in another post that the company knows that the fares can be rationalized (a sr. management person told me to my face) but they are afraid to do it. They can roll the PHL hub and get more utilization out of the aircraft but they haven't.

The problem here is that there is no plan for the survival and future growth of the company. The only plan is to bust the unions. I am embarrassed for all my good friends at U who are truly the best in this business.

Are there cuts coming? Sure. Does the work force like it? Not a bit. But until the other obvious issues are addressed I don't see why it should be put on the backs of the workers again.

Let the company address the other issues--THEN they can come to labor for what they think they need.

I think the "show" yesterday was an embarrassment, and did far more harm than good.

As you requested, this post is using just logic.

I wish you all the very best.........

 

[OldGuyinPA]

The presentation really just showed us all how little David's leadership qualities are. The only way, only way cuts could come now is with the other David to fire this David.

I don't see that happening. Game, Set and Match........

 

[DCAflyer]

USA320Pilot,

With all due respect, it strikes me that you are "logical" when it comes to the jobs of other work groups, yet "emotional" when it comes to yours. I recall your venum, albeit justified, when the company was terminating the pilot's pension plan... that's the only time I recall you wanting to fight. So it seems to me that as long as you and your seniority aren't attacked, you are fine with thousands more losing their jobs, and those remaining in other work groups having reduced benefits and wages, being on food stamps, facing foreclosure of their homes and repossession of their cars, having diminished credit ratings, and having to pull their children out of colleges. You see, USA320Pilot, you and your work group have for years enjoyed high incomes and professional prestige. Maybe you should go load an aircraft with cargo or face angry customers for a day and see how hard others have worked year after year so you can have what you have.

Best of luck.

 

[autofixer]

This newbie Dave, is only doing what he always does. Did he not hold positions at Continental during one of their tenures in CH11? Did he not place a large RJ order for Continental? That was the plan. It worked for CO and it did not work for UAIR. I find it disturbing that some still believe Dave has a handle on the company. As far as SWA in PHL being a supprise, I would like to have a dime for everytime I or the other pilot mentioned SWA in PHL as we flew near north Philly airport. If it truely is a supprise to Dave and the UAIR management group (they are not a team), then that simply shows their lack of vision. Now that Dave has announced that he does not know what to do, do not be supprised to see LCCs come to CLT hot and heavy. What's left? EVEN if UAIR becomes an LCC, how long will that take for this management bunch to implement and how well will they do in the face of long established LCCs? The customer will know who the real LCC is!

Dave should be terminated now! Since he has not been fired, it can only mean that there is a hidden agenda. Some hope for a merger, but how realistic is that? There are too many seats out there now. I hate to say it, but it looks as if liquidation and fragmentation is the real plan here and that probably always has been the plan.

Do what you have got to do, but there is another world out here away from UAIR. When you don't do what Dave asks and vote with your feet, he will know he has you where he wants you. Good luck. It truely is a sad situation for all.

 

[autofixer]

USA320Pilot,

With all due respect, it strikes me that you are "logical" when it comes to the jobs of other work groups, yet "emotional" when it comes to yours. I recall your venum, albeit justified, when the company was terminating the pilot's pension plan... that's the only time I recall you wanting to fight. So it seems to me that as long as you and your seniority aren't attacked, you are fine with thousands more losing their jobs, and those remaining in other work groups having reduced benefits and wages, being on food stamps, facing foreclosure of their homes and repossession of their cars, having diminished credit ratings, and having to pull their children out of colleges. You see, USA320Pilot, you and your work group have for years enjoyed high incomes and professional prestige. Maybe you should go load an aircraft with cargo or face angry customers for a day and see how hard others have worked year after year so you can have what you have.

Best of luck.

DCAflyer, that is not fair to the pilot group as a whole. Many(if not most) pilots have worked in the pits and know how it is there.

 

[diogenes]

Bud8EE,


I've thought it, but you said it, and in a much better manner.

Nicely done!

320Pilot, can you respond in a like manner? It'd be a welcome change from the same ol', sameol'.

Go little e!

 

[Hope777]

Once again, Daves vision is one of a FOLLOWER not a LEADER. Why do we need to do what other airlines do? Make them follow us! ! ! It worked for AWA. And why is it all of a sudden with two months until SWA comes into Philly is Management finally showing some concern, what have they done for the last 12 months?

 

[GadgetFreak]

First, let me say that I believe it is managements responsability to deal with issues like those that are facing the company in a constructive, proactive way. I dont think they have done that. It seems that the management team is designed to deal with finance people, not employees or customers. I am not a great fan of Lee Ioccoca, but I believe it was him that said something very relevent to this situation: "You manage inventory. You lead people." (apologies if it was someone else that said it, it is a great quote). That hasnt hit anyone in US management or on the board.

But while I know management is responsable, I see a lot here that makes me think that there isnt much in the way of realization of the situation or a willingness to work with the company to make things work on the part of the employees. One exception to this was some constructive comments by the pilots union concerning a willingness to reopen negotiations if changes were made in the overall business.

I have also seen a lot of comments on this thread and others about the value or liability of a senior, more highly experienced workforce. In and of itself such a workforce is neither a liability nor an asset. If it produces more in some way than a less experienced workforce, it is an asset. If it doesnt, it is a liability. If can become an asset by being productive beyond its pay relative to a less experienced workforce or by providing customer satisfaction to increase revenue beyond its pay differential relative to a junior workforce.

From what I have read, the US workforce isnt more productive than a more junior workforce. As to increasing business through better customer satisfaction, I think there is a lack of appreciation for how customers view US. First, a caveat, as a US1, I am almost always treated well by US on a personal level. However, when it comes to things like checked baggage delivery or flight delays I, like everyone else, dont get such a good feeling. However, after a number of years as a US1 I see the overall quality of the US product deteriorating across the board. I also have seen that at AA and UA, but not nearly as much as US. In fact, in the last 6 months I think customer service, customer amenities and the overall customer experience has improved at UA and AA and deteriorated at US. I also hear how other people, who maybe only fly once or twice a year talk about US and other carriers. How valuable is a senior workforce? Does anyone here honestly think that if you took 100 non-frequent flyers and put sent them on three trips, one each on US, Southwest and JetBlue, you polled them for customer satisfaction US would come in first? Or second? Or even a close third?

People need to stop calling each other, and management names. Yea, maybe they deserve it some or all of the time. But it doesnt help. It doesnt matter that they are millionaires. They are and we arent. People need to realize the gravity of the situation and that they need to respond to solve the problems. That doesnt mean agreeing to everything management wants. But it means being a lot more contructive than I see from a lot of the people here.

 

[robbedagain]

USA320Pilot,

With all due respect, it strikes me that you are "logical" when it comes to the jobs of other work groups, yet "emotional" when it comes to yours. I recall your venum, albeit justified, when the company was terminating the pilot's pension plan... that's the only time I recall you wanting to fight. So it seems to me that as long as you and your seniority aren't attacked, you are fine with thousands more losing their jobs, and those remaining in other work groups having reduced benefits and wages, being on food stamps, facing foreclosure of their homes and repossession of their cars, having diminished credit ratings, and having to pull their children out of colleges. You see, USA320Pilot, you and your work group have for years enjoyed high incomes and professional prestige. Maybe you should go load an aircraft with cargo or face angry customers for a day and see how hard others have worked year after year so you can have what you have.

Best of luck.

i'd like to see usa320 pilot work as a ramper or an inside agent at a mainline express city whereas the top pay is only 1300 an hr but of course pilots at mainline have to protect themselves as usual while the rest of us suffer at their helm