MCI transplant
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<_< Question: You say you have time to recupe your retirement. What about those that don't????767jetz said:
Mechanics Ramp Up Strike Threat Against United
- Thread starter blueskies4ever
- Start date
It's a moot point. If you don't like it and strke you still won't have your pension but you will also have no job to boot.
Do you really think that unlimited outsourcing and voting oneself out of a job is something anyone would willingly do to themselves and the only options this company has? That's the choice they (AMFA and IAM) have in a nutshell. What would you do? Do you really believe the BS coming from WHQ that they are waiting to discuss all options? What a crock. When concession talks began they presented options for cost savings at one time and the company wouldn't even consider them.767jetz said:
I understand you are highly motivated to see this company succeed, given the notes you guys are getting, but what motivation could there possibly be for a mechanic?
The company's only concern according to all of you is getting money to come out of bankruptcy. Those may be the hard realities we face, but it appears the company has been unwilling to consider options and has had one goal from the beginning of this fiasco and if we survive they will probably be successful. Reduce labor to the lowest common denominator.
There's something at play here that so many of you discount as irrelevent...that the ONLY thing that really matters is the realities of the marketplace and this industry at this time. What about human nature. How do you expect people to react when it's departure time and your manager stands by with his arms crossed watching..while you're busting your ass trying to get the flight out on time. It's ridiculous. I've seen that happening on numerous occassions. Those are the things that employees see and that make a difference. On the same team, all in this together, yeah right. I suppose ya'll will say that they are doing whatever their job is. Many of us do what's not in our job description to do because we GIVE A SH*T.
I think all of us are fully aware of the consequences we all face here if there is a strike or if by some miracle we get through this period. I just don't happen to believe that at all costs UAL should survive. It's not only the responsibility of labor that the operation works and it's human nature to expect it to be demonstrated by everyone who has a stake in this company's survival. Like it or not, right or wrong, it's obvious that lots of people here don't see that.
For myself, the pension issue is settled. It's gone. The issues for the mechanics and ramp are more complex, and they seem to have some other options. Why would they put up with any more of this? Forget the arguments about the court and RLA. That's not going to force people to come to work.
A house divided. I've never seen it this bad. It's a sickness at this company and always has been. And it could very well be its end. That possibility has been around for at least 20 years...as long as I've been here at least.
767jetz,May 6 2005, 05:40 PM]
IMO Tilton is trying to take only what is neccessary to please the banks and emerge from BK. No more. Certainly no less.
And that explains the huge bonuses for management?
Pensions are a sensitive subject. But the reality is that it is the single biggest obligation UA is left with, and there is simply not enough money to keep them alive while still remaining a viable company. If UA closes down they are gone as well.
Its called Mutually Assured Destruction. Its the only thiing that has gotten working people anything over the last 75 years. Better to see the employer dissappear and create a vacuum for another one than to allow them to take away everything. If you are going to end up with nothing make sure the stockholders end up the same way.
Replacing them with a much less expensive Defined Contribution plan is the only option. Just like ALPA maintained all along. Cancel was not an option. Terminate AND replace was the only road to compromise. While the situation does suck, I think people will eventually realize that a combination of the PBGC's guarantee, combined with a replacement DC plan will not be as painful as they initially anticipated. And it beats starting over somewhere else and letting our competition win the battle.
The fact is that the battle is between the workers and the airlines. The airlines chose this battle, not the workers. If it comes to that, starting over may not be as painful either. Ive seen more people quit the last two years than I did the prior 23 years.
I dont work at UA but if we get the chance to fight back I'm more than willing, even if it meant that the company might cease operations and I had to start over. At least if you are starting over there is the chance that things might get better. Once the path of concessions has begun the only way the workers can stop it is by striking. Once management knows how weak the workers are there is no other way of stopping them. If the strike liquidates the company then you can be sure thats where it was headed anyway, the only thing concessions can do is delay it at the cost of working for less.
IMO Tilton is trying to take only what is neccessary to please the banks and emerge from BK. No more. Certainly no less.
And that explains the huge bonuses for management?
Pensions are a sensitive subject. But the reality is that it is the single biggest obligation UA is left with, and there is simply not enough money to keep them alive while still remaining a viable company. If UA closes down they are gone as well.
Its called Mutually Assured Destruction. Its the only thiing that has gotten working people anything over the last 75 years. Better to see the employer dissappear and create a vacuum for another one than to allow them to take away everything. If you are going to end up with nothing make sure the stockholders end up the same way.
Replacing them with a much less expensive Defined Contribution plan is the only option. Just like ALPA maintained all along. Cancel was not an option. Terminate AND replace was the only road to compromise. While the situation does suck, I think people will eventually realize that a combination of the PBGC's guarantee, combined with a replacement DC plan will not be as painful as they initially anticipated. And it beats starting over somewhere else and letting our competition win the battle.
The fact is that the battle is between the workers and the airlines. The airlines chose this battle, not the workers. If it comes to that, starting over may not be as painful either. Ive seen more people quit the last two years than I did the prior 23 years.
I dont work at UA but if we get the chance to fight back I'm more than willing, even if it meant that the company might cease operations and I had to start over. At least if you are starting over there is the chance that things might get better. Once the path of concessions has begun the only way the workers can stop it is by striking. Once management knows how weak the workers are there is no other way of stopping them. If the strike liquidates the company then you can be sure thats where it was headed anyway, the only thing concessions can do is delay it at the cost of working for less.
Are we to assume you didn't accept concessions at your airline then Bob? Of course you did...one of the first ones to bend over in fact.
Spoken like a true competitor trying to shove us off the cliff. Sorry, won't work.
Spoken like a true competitor trying to shove us off the cliff. Sorry, won't work.
767jetz
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- Aug 20, 2002
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MCI transplant said:<_< Question: You say you have time to recupe your retirement. What about those that don't????
[post="267145"][/post]
It doesn't matter. If UA goes under the pensions are gone anyway. There are those that say if I lose my pension then I'll burn the place down so no one will benefit.
Well that's short sighted. Sure, if you are here only for the pension and nothing else maybe that might be a strategy. But besides the pension, people make their daily wage and support their families from the income. And if UA survives, then there is also a replacement retirement plan, 401K, and the PBGC to make up for some of what's lost.
Putting this place out eliminates all of those things.
You ask what about those who don't have time to make it up. What about those who have no job? Or those who have no health insurance? Or those who are homeless?
There are many cases of people who, for one reason or another, have fallen on tough times. Is is everyone else's fault? If people do not have enough time left to save for retirement, and haven't planned contingencies in their future, they will have a harder time of it for sure. But should everyone else suffer for their misfortune or lack of planning?
One way or another the pensions will go, either voluntarily or through liquidation. So for those unprepared I suggest they start looking for a higher paying job with better benefits to make up the difference.
In the end, a compromised negotiated resolution will be in the majority's best interest.
mrfish3726
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- Jul 7, 2004
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FLY says "If you don't like it and strke you still won't have your pension but you will also have no job to boot." Question here FLY, is UniTED a real job???? I didn't think it was at all when I made the mistake of taking a position there. Neither did many of my counterparts with MANY YEARS at UniTED that are now HAPPILY furlouged from UAL HELL and LOVING IT FROM THE SIDE LINES! 
It's kind of like being a cartoon addict, you have to at least wake up and look at the funnies everyday LOL just to survive :blink: .
Face it FLY, no matter what happens with UniTED it will ALWAYS SUC to work there PERIOD!
It's kind of like being a cartoon addict, you have to at least wake up and look at the funnies everyday LOL just to survive :blink: .Face it FLY, no matter what happens with UniTED it will ALWAYS SUC to work there PERIOD!
Spacewaitress makes an excellent point. If you are a mechanic or ramper, UAL management is basically saying; "we want more paycuts, your pension and the right to contract out all your work and get rid of you forever." All this while management continues to award themselves bonuses. If you were an AMT or ramper, how would you feel about this after 15 to 25 years of service? They might get the AMTs and rampers to agree to their own destruction if they offer buyouts like USAir did. I think it is too late for the AMTs because they have already laid off about half of them and the remaining could be replaced with management and scabs. But the rampers have sufficient numbers to shut it down. And before anyone accuses me of being an AA employee helping to push UA over the cliff is wrong. As I have stated before, I think UA will survive. I think that there will be no job actions and maybe the UA employees will get cheap buyouts like the US people got. I have already accepted life without AA.
mrfish3726
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mrfish3726
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mrfish3726
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mrfish3726 said:DAVE, UniTED SUCS and you know it so just take the pill and swallow it!
[post="267198"][/post]
Fish,
You are such a loser.
Probably picked on as a kid, married the only person who'd say yes, and now you get picked on at home.
You'd never say these things in person, just a scared little man hiding behind a keyboard. You are obsessed. Get off UAL's board if you don't like us. Get mental help.
Jerry
Winglet said:
Therein lays the problem that will be the demise of UA. The arrogance that the management of the â€Lazy’U†(and the rest of the industry) has enjoyed through almost immediate prostration of ‘ALL UNIONS’. This has given the management of the â€Lazy’U†false confidence that we are just another clone and will capitulate at all costs at the last minute.
JMHO, foolhardy at best.
UA management has had over two years to negotiate a solution to the pension issue but has not discussed options with the unions and has been insistent on the ‘Scrap’ plan as the ‘only’ alternative. As the UAL Unions begin seriously discussing DB options, the company is in a different room with the PBGC making a deal.
As it isn’t bad enough that we are going to take a major hit on our pensions, they ‘LIE’ about it! Then have the nads to try to ram more concessions up our Yazoo?
How do you make a ‘good faith’ contract with liars?
The ‘capitulation’ and ‘posturing’ precedence has been set by ‘ALL’ unions in the industry and has given a false confidence to the UA management team that we will bow our heads and ‘kow-tow’ to our masters.
It is not going to happen!!!
B) UT
