Merger Us/awa

[lpbrian]

Agreed. Seniority disributions are not always equal. Seems to me the fairest way to merge lists would be on a percentile basis, i.e. anyone on the bottom of their respective lists would be at the bottom of a combined list, those in the middle would be in the middle of combined list and so on. Don't hear much talk about this.

 

[Fly]

That seems the fairest way to me also.

 

[aafsc]

Now I know your skill you read peoples minds by looking at a video. Do you think we would have been okey without AA maybe. I bet TWA would still be flying had it not been for AA. Guess we should have known better than to believe DDon Cartys lies in the US Senate and more of his lies with the purchase agreement before the judge.

[post="267891"][/post]​

In addition to seeing the video, I talked to some of the TWAers at a couple of cities I worked at. When I was in DFW, they were saying, "I am happy to have a job" and "I am sure glad you guys bought us". They were basically saying the same things in the other cities I worked at. So I heard it straight from the TWAers themselves. But don't forget almost all thought that they were going to get their full TWA seniority system wide when they made these statements right after the transaction was announced. Then of course Kasher ruled and now a majority are bitter. In my opinion TWA would be dead because it would have been highly unlikely that the government would have given TWA a loan (even assuming it could have gotten through the 1st quarter of 2001) because Icahn still had another 2 years to his ticket deal. I don't think the ATSB would have loaned the money knowing it would end up in Icahn's pocket. Remember the ATSB did turn down UA and they did not have a "karabu" agreement.

 

[CactusJack]

I'm glad we've turned this discussion into a AA/TWA discussion instead of US/HP.

 

[mga707]

I'm glad we've turned this discussion into a AA/TWA discussion instead of US/HP.

[post="268174"][/post]​

Me too.
AA/TW: The dead horse that just keeps on taking a beating...
:down:

 

[El Gato]

Agreed. Seniority disributions are not always equal. Seems to me the fairest way to merge lists would be on a percentile basis, i.e. anyone on the bottom of their respective lists would be at the bottom of a combined list, those in the middle would be in the middle of combined list and so on. Don't hear much talk about this.

[post="267993"][/post]​

Pretty good idea lpbrian. It is fair to everyone and doesn't cause too much grumbling.

 

[exB717Flyer]

I suppose that could be the case if US Air employees, like TWA employees, sign-away their contractural rights in order to facilitate the deal.

[post="267630"][/post]​

Funny how this urban legend keeps resurfacing. The saying "History is written by the victors" comes to mind. The TWA MEC gave up our successorship clauses under threat of abrogation of our entire contract. Carty and the judge would've made the sale go through regardless and didn't need any "facilitation" from the TWA employees. The Section 1113 bankruptcy proceedings were unprecedented and our MEC under duress -- it seemed like the right thing to do at the time especially since our ALPA-supplied attorney adviced us to do it.

BTW I've just finished my first year at AWA so I'm a very interested party in how this all goes down.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Seems to me the fairest way to merge lists would be on a percentile basis, i.e. anyone on the bottom of their respective lists would be at the bottom of a combined list, those in the middle would be in the middle of combined list and so on.

[post="267993"][/post]​

It certainly does sound pretty fair but there's still the fences to work out. No airline management would go for anything that would result in massive training events. The combined seniority number isn't the whole story -- it's what you can do with it that matters.

 

[twambassador]

Me too.
AA/TW: The dead horse that just keeps on taking a beating...
:down:

[post="268247"][/post]​

There is a reason why AA/TWA keeps coming up. No one is trying to beat a dead horse, but one has to learn from history, and AA/TWA is now used as a model of what can happen. As I said earlier, this is no longer about AA/TWA, but you have to dicscuss that merger in order to make sure something like it doesn't happen again.

The ideas brought earlier that we (TWA) gave our rights away is ridiculous. We were LIED to. Do you think that we would have agreed to be treated like we were eventually? Myself, I was happy that we got to merge with AA, but not at the expense that we ended up paying. 3/4 of TWA is layed off, while TWA aircraft are still flying with AA employess working them. That is a lesson for all future mergers to learn.

 

[MCI transplant]

Me too.
AA/TW: The dead horse that just keeps on taking a beating...
:down:

[post="268247"][/post]​

<_< Sorry guys! I've tryed to get him off your turf, with little luck! I promise not to answeer him! But the man's ate up! Signed:"Just one of aa's redheaded stepchildren!"

 

[MCI transplant]

Me too.
AA/TW: The dead horse that just keeps on taking a beating...
:down:

[post="268247"][/post]​

<_< mga---- That dead hourse may not be gone yet, there are a couple of law suits still in the works. Granted they may be long shots, but stranger things have happened! 😛

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< Howevever this works out for you people, I wish all of you luck!!!

 

[UseYourHead]

I have not heard of anyone giving up any rights here, have you?

APA was not ALPA, and they have a history of the staple method of seniority integration. UAL pilots would have liked to have done that too, but that was clearly not going to happen.

AWA/UAir will have the process work out, that is ALPA merger policy, it works as well as can be expected in an event like this, and it should be embraced as there are protections and procedures to be followed, and they will of benefit to Cactus & US Airways pilots.

We are all sorry for what the pilots of American did to you (and AirCal). And your right, we all should learn from history.

After living through 4 mergers & seniority ingrations in 20 years, I do not understand why everyone is working themselves into a frenzy...they cannot do boo about it as it will follow the guidelines set out and in the end what will be will be.

Relax

There is a reason why AA/TWA keeps coming up.  No one is trying to beat a dead horse, but one has to learn from history, and AA/TWA is now used as a model of what can happen.  As I said earlier, this is no longer about AA/TWA, but you have to dicscuss that merger in order to make sure something like it doesn't happen again. 

The ideas brought earlier that we (TWA) gave our rights away is ridiculous.  We were LIED to.  Do you think that we would have agreed to be treated like we were eventually? Myself, I was happy that we got to merge with AA, but not at the expense that we ended up paying.  3/4 of TWA is layed off, while TWA aircraft are still flying with AA employess working them.  That is a lesson for all future mergers to learn.

[post="268744"][/post]​

 

[Travelpro72]

So true. The laws regarding seniority integration are clearly written for AFA at both carriers. Neigher carrier seems to be buying either but if so the language is the same. All this mumbo jumbo about staples, dovetales and so on is a dead end conversation. This is in NO WAY anything like the TWA/AA transaction so therefore it makes no sense to bring them up on here. Tragic as it was and shamefull it's not our "US-HP's" situation. The integration of both will most likely leave someone out of a job. there are very junior f/a's on invol at US and there are very junior f/a's active at HP. Seniority is the name of the game and what will be will be. Nobody will be integrated for quite some time. When it does I'm sure many will have left US by that time. With all the negativity flowing, maybe others will see this and realize that they better get their house in order cause things have changed and its gonna get rough for the rest. Everyone wanted to see US out of the picture, well combined the name will still be there with alot of great employees from both companies flying under the flag ready to kick some butt. Who wants to disagree with that is not important. Wait and see....

 

[aafsc]

<_< mga---- That dead hourse may not be gone yet, there are a couple of law suits still in the works. Granted they may be long shots, but stranger things have happened! 😛

[post="268816"][/post]​

You are the one's that are eaten up as evidenced by your constant whining, lawsuits, grievances over the arbitrators ruling, and your trademark signature. I just correct your incorrect posts.