Negotiations........why?

[scorpion 2]

MetalMover,
I agree with you that the company wants to have a JCBA in place. The ability to merge work forces was most likely one of the ways they would lower costs through being able to have all US and AA AMTs work on any aircraft in the new AA. The problem is as you say, how many compromises will the company ask us for to get that JCBA with DL+7? It sounded like Isom in one of the town halls alluded to altering scope to give more latitude to outsource work like DL. There is still a substantial amount of airframe and engine overhaul in-house. I am interested to see the company's initial proposal. Could be ugly for overhaul. I suspect merging and downsizing of overhaul capacity will be one of the proposals. I heard from PIT mechanics that they felt US before the merger had plans to move the base work to CLT. Put that with maybe more airframe work in TUL being outsourced and it could be a fight that delays any new JCBA for a while.
 
Scorpion2,
I don't know why the lack of leverage was not brought up. Look at early openers in the last CBA. Did we have the ability to ask for release prior to the amendable date? No, but we had the ability to talk and change the existing CBA. And we all know where we ended up eventually. The IAM is right, there pay position will most likely improve relative to where they were not too long ago. The problem is on the TWU side of the house. We have more overhaul work in-house than US and Isom/Seymour/Parker want more ability to outsource than they have now. What that means or what they exactly want I don't know. Need to get to the table and talk.

I love it! The iam and the twu side of the house. It didn't have to be this way but to have a DUES COALITION it does. Will scope have to change that much for them to get what they want? With all the new aircraft and longer engine life by the time maintenance becomes a real issue most of us will be gone. A new contract will be negotiated 5 years from now with a lot smaller work force that will not be affected by more outsourcing. Personally I dont think they give a rats butt whether we are merged work forces or not if it costs them money to make it happen . We can file grievances all we want but Parker and the boys will be above the fray wont care whether we are merged forces.  We always settle for pennies on the dollar anyway.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

We? The company will stall not us. The advantage is with the company. Current CBA expires years from now. They have zero incentive to give us all our stuff back. They will give a raise but not without something else in return.

so what you are saying is the that we have no clout or backing from any organization to help us against corporate america and more concessions.  We are on our own again

 

[Overspeed]

Chuck,
What I am saying is understand the collective bargaining process and where we are in it. Are we at the amendable date yet? No. Can you legally do self help during a merger when you have a CBA in place at both US and AA? No. So our leverage is that Parker wants very badly to realize those efficiency gains he said he would get before the merger however nothing compels him to settle for something does help him. You may be on your own in feeling that we have no backing but the truth is the current CBA is not at its amendable date and there is no way that I know of that lets us say, "Here is our final offer and we want to go to self help." We can strike in 2018 (or ask to) then. I believe we have a good chance to get some good pay increase, VC, benefits, better work rules, and SK time back but there will be a price from the company. Isom was clear on that.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Chuck,
What I am saying is understand the collective bargaining process and where we are in it. Are we at the amendable date yet? No. Can you legally do self help during a merger when you have a CBA in place at both US and AA? No. So our leverage is that Parker wants very badly to realize those efficiency gains he said he would get before the merger however nothing compels him to settle for something does help him. You may be on your own in feeling that we have no backing but the truth is the current CBA is not at its amendable date and there is no way that I know of that lets us say, "Here is our final offer and we want to go to self help." We can strike in 2018 (or ask to) then. I believe we have a good chance to get some good pay increase, VC, benefits, better work rules, and SK time back but there will be a price from the company. Isom was clear on that.

you reiterated my point we are on our own
 
self help......what is that in the TWU.....never happen!   just words with no meaning.
 
we is all our political support to help us?   AFL/CIO,  transport trades. cope, politicians
where is anyone battling for our class and craft?

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Again I ask " why are we negotiating with the company"?     read below:
 

[SIZE=10.5pt]$4 billion in fuel saving along with $2 billion in pension/retiree savings and $7 billion in merger synergies equates to $13 billion in additional annual earnings with no drain coming from employee profit sharing. Investors are elated.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]"'Fortunately for American, its policy of not hedging fuel costs has won it the biggest savings of the group — about $4 billion a year. Management has scaled back plans for capacity additions and delayed some plane orders. That puts the company in an excellent position to retire high-interest debt and buy back shares for a song,' said Barron's writer Jack Hough.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]"The report estimated that American will save about $4 billion on fuel a year."[/SIZE]


 

 

 

[dfw gen]

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2015/06/american-airlines-ceo-doug-parker-nets-4-1-million-in-stock-sale.html/
 
 
 

American Airlines CEO Doug Parker nets $4.1 million in stock sale ($2.4 million after tax witholdings)
 
they are doing a great job!!! now where is our's?
 
hello twu and iam time to get off your a** and do something for the membership!

 

[Vortilon]

Chuck,
What I am saying is understand the collective bargaining process and where we are in it. Are we at the amendable date yet? No. Can you legally do self help during a merger when you have a CBA in place at both US and AA? No. So our leverage is that Parker wants very badly to realize those efficiency gains he said he would get before the merger however nothing compels him to settle for something does help him. You may be on your own in feeling that we have no backing but the truth is the current CBA is not at its amendable date and there is no way that I know of that lets us say, "Here is our final offer and we want to go to self help." We can strike in 2018 (or ask to) then. I believe we have a good chance to get some good pay increase, VC, benefits, better work rules, and SK time back but there will be a price from the company. Isom was clear on that.

 
Are you sure you're not a chick?  You're the type of person that used car salesman just love to deal with.  With people that think like you - negotiating our contacts, it's not a wonder all of recent contracts sucked so much.   Excuse after excuse, hell, what are you not telling us?  Did those simps on the negotiating committee already accept a concession laiden offer from the company on our behalf?

 

[Overspeed]

Vortilon,
I believe that it will be an uphill battle regardless of what and I am definitely not negotiating but I will be voting. So if you believe that your position and tactics are the right way to go, you can convince enough people that you are right and vote your way, then you have nothing to worry about. Your beliefs will win the day.
 
I am not on the committee and if calling me a chick implies what? That women are weak? I would say often women think with their heads instead of their balls and keep us men from going off the deep end. I respect women and while you think that's an insult or implies weakness I think otherwise.

 

[chilokie1]

Vortilon,
I believe that it will be an uphill battle regardless of what and I am definitely not negotiating but I will be voting. So if you believe that your position and tactics are the right way to go, you can convince enough people that you are right and vote your way, then you have nothing to worry about. Your beliefs will win the day.
 
I am not on the committee and if calling me a chick implies what? That women are weak? I would say often women think with their heads instead of their balls and keep us men from going off the deep end. I respect women and while you think that's an insult or implies weakness I think otherwise.

No he is calling you a c--k s----r you dumb s--t!!  We had a chance to end this charade from the start but dumb
asses like yourself refused to grow a pair.  You couldn't keep your nose out of the ass of your favorite TWU lackey
as he lead you & your ilk down the yellow brick road to see the wizard who could only say "YOU GET TO VOTE !!, 
YOU GET TO VOTE !! & that is all the sheeple needed to hear.   I'am afraid we will all get what you deserve !!  :angry2:

 

[Overspeed]

chilokie,
Very eloquent argument. You ability to elucidate your points is amazing.

 

[AANOTOK]

No he is calling you a c--k s----r you dumb s--t!!  We had a chance to end this charade from the start but dumb
asses like yourself refused to grow a pair.  You couldn't keep your nose out of the ass of your favorite TWU lackey
as he lead you & your ilk down the yellow brick road to see the wizard who could only say "YOU GET TO VOTE !!, 
YOU GET TO VOTE !! & that is all the sheeple needed to hear.   I'am afraid we will all get what you deserve !!  :angry2:

Sorry, that's not how I read it.

 

[Vortilon]

Vortilon,
I believe that it will be an uphill battle regardless of what and I am definitely not negotiating but I will be voting. So if you believe that your position and tactics are the right way to go, you can convince enough people that you are right and vote your way, then you have nothing to worry about. Your beliefs will win the day.
 
I am not on the committee and if calling me a chick implies what? That women are weak? I would say often women think with their heads instead of their balls and keep us men from going off the deep end. I respect women and while you think that's an insult or implies weakness I think otherwise.

 
What I am saying is - you are making the companys side of the argument for them.  Why is it, you always have a defeatist approach?  "We lost already" type of attitude.  I have played or coached sports most of my life.  For me,  I like playing to win.  Wheras people like you, are happy with a participation trophy.  A "gosh, didn't we have a good time getting our asses handed to us" type of guy.  Enough analogies, our representation needs to be in it to win us back our pay and benefits.
 
I am making less now, than I was in 2002.  So far, I am not impressed with the pace of our negotiating committee's actions.  We are loosing money and opportunity with each passing day.  Where is the sense of urgency?  Effing idiots.

 

[1AA]

As long as the union is collecting dues there is no urgency for a jcba. The union will get a raise when we get our mid term wage adjustment in September. They have our 14% equity to hold them over. I'm sure the IAMPF will be a priority vs our money. I remember hearing something from the union about restore and more. That must pertain to the international not the dues paying members. We lose 4% pay as each day goes by with this incompetent union. Is anyone really expecting anything different this time around?

 

[dfw gen]

As long as the union is collecting dues there is no urgency for a jcba. The union will get a raise when we get our mid term wage adjustment in September. They have our 14% equity to hold them over. I'm sure the IAMPF will be a priority vs our money. I remember hearing something from the union about restore and more. That must pertain to the international not the dues paying members. We lose 4% pay as each day goes by with this incompetent union. Is anyone really expecting anything different this time around?

nope and everyone else cashes in while we get screwed by the twu and the iam. still deciding to meet in July again shows the priority we are to them. yet we still take more of the subpar representation...

 

[WeAAsles]

Some of these threads on Forums are a real waste of time with the individuals who continue to write the same blah blah blah over and over.

Case in point this one.