New Attendance program

[Doc]

Be careful what you are grieving. We have a point system here at AA, but it is just for the flight attendants AFAIK. It's actually a little looser than the old system, but it still encourages people to come to work when they are sick.

From what I have read on this thread, the company is not saying you will not be paid for sick leave, they are saying that you will accrue points, and I'm sure that like our system, enough points equals termination or other disciplinary action. As far as the holiday issue, the company can (we've already plowed that field here at AA) demand and get a Dr's statement for illness on a holiday you are scheduled to work. And, they can withhold pay until it is provided.

This is especially true if they can show a "pattern of behavior." There was a f/a here at AA who called in sick every 4th of July, Thanksgiving, and Christmas for 5 straight years. She was not able (can you imagine?) to convince the arbitrator that she was sick. The Dr. was not willing to provide statements for those periods. Once it goes to arbitration, a Dr.'s note is the same as him/her testifying in court. A number of physicians are not willing to risk their license even for a favorite patient.

Courts have ruled previously that "the company has a right to a reasonable expectation that an employee will report for work when scheduled" and they have a right to require proof of illness. And, whether you are or are not union, that expectation is supported by the courts. Attendance at work is not a negotiable issue.

That being said, I have a REAL problem with that 2 points for family illness thing. When my late wife was taking chemo, was I suppose to say "Sorry, you'll have to drive yourself to the hospital. I have too many points already this year."?????

I have no problem going to the Dr. But if they are requiring me to go they should pay the copay......

 

[Dog Wonder]

Now back in the good old days in PIT they had MEAN Gene Egan. People would have heart attacks and not go home, rather than get called in by him.

After he jumped your ass for getting sick he would tell you to get a haircut.

 

[bagchucker]

I am not in favor of this new sick policy. There are several downfalls. I, for one, am not one to use many of my sick days, but those that do will land on mgmt's "radar" quickly. We all know stuff happens and there are times when you need to take a sick day. With this new policy, you are going to have folks who are really ill coming to work getting every else sick because they don't want to get that next point that puts them into the disciplinary Level 1 or higher. Not only that, but the Fleet side of this doesn't even pay a sick call until the second day. So... if you are gonna take a sick day, might as well take two if you are getting the point anyway.

This whole "policy" is designed to benefit mgmt and is actually punitive in structure. Sick days are a right that every employee should feel they can use when needed, i mean hey, you earned your sick time, right? Most, but not all, use their sick time in a conservative fashion and don't need to feel that there is reprimand for taking a day off for pete's sake.

This policy stinks. You will see a lot of sick co-workers coming to work and some good folks getting Level 1's and higher, weeding themselves out, just because of being sick.

Not Fair. Ask a Southwest employee how their "point" structure for attendance is, I think you will then see how restrictive and punitive ours is. Boo!

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

.... i can't recall one instance of a guy telling me he's had to take a day off to take care of his sick kids , but every woman i've ment at work who has kids has done so at one point in time .... SEXIST :down:

Why shouldn't a husband alternate kiddie sick days with the wife? We did it for years. The female should not automatically be expected to call in when the child is ill.

Sexist is always having mom stay home with the kids. Also what about your sick parents? Should your sister or spouse take a day off for that too? Where do the alpha males fit in this scheme?

You are working with the wrong people if you've never met a guy who did not take a day to care for a sick family member. Fact.

 

[leprechaun]

I like the 2 hour window to call in sick. If Joe Dirt has an 0400 start on the ramp, and there's a power outage at is house, if his alarm shuts off and he oversleeps 2 hours, he's considered a no call no show.

You got to like how employee coaching has been changed to "Progressive Counseling"


This so called "No Fault" policy is basically an all your fault policy. If your driving to work and there's an accident that backs up traffic, it's too bad, your late, that'll cost ya .5 points.

This policy stinks, and is openly hostile to employees.

 

[crushed]

Bottom line....if you are going to be late....call out for a week instead

 

[InternationalShannon]

wellllllllllllllllllllllllllll i guess my points are already gone hahahha

 

[NevadaHP]

Just so people know.... Your UNION has heard you loud and clear and is currently at the District convention in Jacksonville FL. Your New Direction Team will not stand for this kind of treatment from the company and are currently developing language for the grievance procedure if it cannot be stopped through talks with the New team and Mgmnt. This is in refrence to Fleet Service, Im not sure what CWA is doing.

 

[JoeDirt]

I am not in favor of this new sick policy. There are several downfalls. I, for one, am not one to use many of my sick days, but those that do will land on mgmt's "radar" quickly. We all know stuff happens and there are times when you need to take a sick day. With this new policy, you are going to have folks who are really ill coming to work getting every else sick because they don't want to get that next point that puts them into the disciplinary Level 1 or higher. Not only that, but the Fleet side of this doesn't even pay a sick call until the second day. So... if you are gonna take a sick day, might as well take two if you are getting the point anyway.

This whole "policy" is designed to benefit mgmt and is actually punitive in structure. Sick days are a right that every employee should feel they can use when needed, i mean hey, you earned your sick time, right? Most, but not all, use their sick time in a conservative fashion and don't need to feel that there is reprimand for taking a day off for pete's sake.

This policy stinks. You will see a lot of sick co-workers coming to work and some good folks getting Level 1's and higher, weeding themselves out, just because of being sick.

Not Fair. Ask a Southwest employee how their "point" structure for attendance is, I think you will then see how restrictive and punitive ours is. Boo!

Bagchucker
Welcome to our world. We have been having to come to work sick for a few years now and it sux.
Its a wonder we haven't had an epidemic of the flu or something considering we work so close to one another and in a confined space.

 

[lineguy43]

Just so people know.... Your UNION has heard you loud and clear and is currently at the District convention in Jacksonville FL. Your New Direction Team will not stand for this kind of treatment from the company and are currently developing language for the grievance procedure if it cannot be stopped through talks with the New team and Mgmnt. This is in refrence to Fleet Service, Im not sure what CWA is doing.

NOW THATS FUNNY!!! The only thing the iam is doing at the district convention is eating brats and drinking beer.

 

[Doc]

Just so people know.... Your UNION has heard you loud and clear and is currently at the District convention in Jacksonville FL. Your New Direction Team will not stand for this kind of treatment from the company and are currently developing language for the grievance procedure if it cannot be stopped through talks with the New team and Mgmnt. This is in refrence to Fleet Service, Im not sure what CWA is doing.

CWA=NOTHING Velvet Hawthorne as rumor has it had this info on this new policy months ago and sat on it ...If we new maybe we could have fought some of this.....

This is another example I feel she not working in our interest time for a petition.

 

[lineguy43]

Sometimes Beer and Brats is often the perfect venue to bond and prepare strategy and tactics.

It's the union version of doing business on the golf course and at the club after.

Also alcohol has often been referred to as the lubricant of business.

Why not give you "New Directions" team a chance to show you who they are. If they are more of the same then you'll know in short order and you can return to your regularly scheduled b^tching.

OK now for a little humor.

A sexy young lady is sitting with a member of the New Directions team. Curious he asked her name. To which she replies "Carmen"!!! The smitten New Directions member responds "Oh what a lovely name" to which Carmen says, "Oh it not my name it's my two favorite things in life, Cars and Men!! By the way what's your name"????

The New Directions member replies (edited)" *If you want to know the punchline you can PM pineybob or just make up your own name.- Mod.

Oh I would agree that brats and beer is a good ice breaker to good business..But not in the iam's case..."New Directions"...LOL....That is as funny as "fighting machinists"...I don't know what new direction they are taking you too but my guess is it is the road to hell.

 

[leprechaun]

Im not sure what CWA is doing.

That would be nothing. Doc is right, our chubby little VP Velvet got the policy from the company over six months ago. She apparently thought it was just fine since she did not share this info with the people who pay her salary. Yes fellow CWA brothers and sisters, our hefty politcal appointee took her rotund bottom and sat on it.

Hey Velvet, have another donut and give away more of our rights with another "Letter of Agreement"


You have no business being in your position!

 

[phillyrules]

I have always thought our sick leave policy should be in the contract....It was omited from the the first CWA contract.....wouldnt you think something as important as attendance should have been negotiated!!!???

The company got around it by saying it was past practice and didnt have to be in the contract....Well now that you have changed the policy it is no longer the same past practice ...it has changed....so it needs to be negotiated....HELLO CWA where are you !!!!?????

Oh thats right youre up Verizons or Sprint or (fill the blank of a phone company) butt...
Little old US is not even a blip on your radar

Time for a new union!!!!

 

[john john]

I have always thought our sick leave policy should be in the contract....It was omited from the the first CWA contract.....wouldnt you think something as important as attendance should have been negotiated!!!???

The company got around it by saying it was past practice and didnt have to be in the contract....Well now that you have changed the policy it is no longer the same past practice ...it has changed....so it needs to be negotiated....HELLO CWA where are you !!!!?????

Oh thats right youre up Verizons or Sprint or (fill the blank of a phone company) butt...
Little old US is not even a blip on your radar

Time for a new union!!!!

CWA passenger service contract does not address attendance discipline directly. There is no attendance policy per se in the contract so therefore all discipline for attendance must meet the “standard of just cause†the attendance policy is the companies not CWA. The company is quick to say your contract say this and that about an employee showing up to work.. NOT SO WITH CWA
Just Cause
What is just cause? Simply put, the employer must have a legitimate reason to assess discipline and the method of doing so must be fair. But just cause goes way beyond that. There are a series of standards that are applicable in almost every disciplinary case. You won’t see them written in any contract. But the employer knows that if he or she does not adhere to those standards, an arbitrator may throw the company-assessed disciplined right out and put the member back to work, possibly with full back pay. These standards apply to the almost all cases of discipline, whether a written reprimand or a discharge.
For the record the seven standards were written almost fifty years ago in an arbitration case. They remain virtually unaltered since then. Let’s examine each one.
1. Did the Company give the employee warning of the consequences of his/her conduct? The type of warning may be written such as a posted rule or a rulebook handed out at employee orientation. Or the member may be told that certain observed conduct is unacceptable and he/she will be disciplined if it continues. Some conduct such as theft, fighting or alcohol consumption is viewed as so serious that the employee is expected to know the consequences of such acts without a warning.
2. Was the company’s rule reasonably related to orderly, efficient, and safe operations? The union can grieve rules if the rules don’t meet this criteria. Members can grieve the same rules if they are disciplined for violating them. Dress codes and appearance rules often fall into this category. But unless there is a threat to health and safety or they constitute an illegal act, the rules must be obeyed and then grieved
3. Did the company investigate before administering discipline? A member has the right to know what he/she is being charged with. Normally, he company investigation must be made before its disciplinary decision is made. Even if the employer must take immediate action, the proper procedure is suspend the member prior to investigation and if the member is found innocent of charges, he or she will be restored to the job with full pay for lost time.
4. Was the company’s investigation conducted fairly and objectively? The company official may act in a hearing as a prosecutor and judge but that person cannot also be a witness against the member. All key witnesses must be interviewed. Otherwise the union can object to the investigation as unfair.
5. Did the investigation produce substantial evidence or proof of guilt? This means that the standard of judgment is that the facts presented by management outweigh the facts presented by union. It does not mean that evidence be preponderant or beyond reasonable doubt. The employer must prove his or her case. It is not up to the member to simply prove his/her innocence. 6. Has the company applied its rules, orders and penalties evenhandedly and without discrimination? For example, if the company has been lax in enforcing a rule in the past, it must inform its employees of its intention to enforce the rule in the future. The logic here is that choosing a worker to discipline to begin enforcing a rule may be viewed as discriminatory because others guilty of the same offense were not penalized.
7. Was the penalty reasonably related to the seriousness of the offense and the record of service? A trivial offense does not merit harsh discipline unless there is a continual pattern of guilt for the same offense. A worker’s record may not be used to determine guilt of the current charge. It may be used to determine the severity of punishment for the charge. Therefore, past work records and longevity with the employer may lighten some penalties.
If you investigate and present disciplinary grievances for the local union, you should use these seven standards as a guideline. You don’t automatically win your case if the employer violates one of these standards. But if there is a pattern, you may be able to build a strong enough case against the employer.
The key to winning these cases is for the union to conduct a thorough investigation. Interview everyone and take good notes. In disciplinary cases, the employer is the moving party. Let them try to prove their case. Take notes while they talk and reserve your comments until they have finished. Make sure you ask questions of their witnesses.