New Pilot contract

[AWA320]

Good thing the Nic is dead then.

Ok I will bite, how so????? I mean just thinking in terms of the law and how it pertains to arbitrations I just dont see how. So ENLIGHTEN me on that fact make me believe you have a legit shot at being able to get around an arbitration and I will tell you all you ever wanted to know out our res system.

Oh before you even get started trying to make that point please do use that failure Lee Seham to attempt to make your point.

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

It will be if you want a new contract. No moving on til that is accepted by usapa and the east.

There are a couple other deal breakers that the east seems to be insisting on, like no PBS etc. but the Nic is the biggey.

No Nic=no contract,,no kidding.

That is more than the truth right there. If people would just take off the angry blinders and see it would be clear as day. Here is the deal VIA THE LAW!!!

The company has asked of the courts to help them move forward. If anyone east or west takes the time to sit down grab a coffee and read it you will get the sense of where this is going. LCC says "I cant move" If we go with usapa we will be sued by the west and we know they will do it. If we go with what we agreed to in the TA then usapa will shut the operation down so what do we do? Court can you please offer us indemnity aganst law suits either way???

The courts are going to say thats not what we are here for. The attorneys you have on staff at LCC are there to answers those questions for you not the court. Under the RLA you have an obligation to negotiate with usapa HOWEVER you also agreed to and signed a transition agreement the covers the battle your employees are now in. If you BREACH that agreement you will most likely be sued and you will lose. Come to us when you are at that point.

There is no way out of that arbitration that doesnt end in a massive law suit and frankly I would much rather my case be against LCC than a bunch of broke pilots. In the end this will serve as the most embarrassing pilot fight in the histoy of aviation because it really centers on honor and not seniority. Usapa can not be trusted and not if but WHEN there is another merger usapa has zero credibility in the industry and that will serve to further hurt us all...

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

Don't forget your distance learning. Just because you don't get paid for it doesn't mean you don't have to do it.

Are you serious the east doesnt get paid for the Distance leaning???? Therein lies yet another gem of the east. You guys are simply loading the guns that kill you. That is a serious disgrace just like th east pay rates that will remain as there is not going to be a snapback....

AWA320

 

[crazystnic]

What does everyon think of the resolution brought up in DC about the vacation bidding that had been agreed to by the NIC and the company?

 

[Crzipilot]

What resolution was that???


Re: the distance learning pay...yup BS. Another Gem by US ALPA, in negotiations to "SAVEEEEEE the COmpany" Immediate give backs to allow the company to restructure, they give up contractual items, with true cost, BUT will have no effect on bottom line as no one on property fit the year range. It wouldn't come into play until 6 years later with recalls.....

I.E. Dropped to 1 week vacation for years 1-7

 

[autofixer]

What resolution was that???


Re: the distance learning pay...yup BS. Another Gem by US ALPA, in negotiations to "SAVEEEEEE the COmpany" Immediate give backs to allow the company to restructure, they give up contractual items, with true cost, BUT will have no effect on bottom line as no one on property fit the year range. It wouldn't come into play until 6 years later with recalls.....

I.E. Dropped to 1 week vacation for years 1-7

This technique was simply to create a lower baseline from which to start negotiations for our next contract. Brilliant on the company's part, moronic and fear based on ALPA's part. We are now going to have to fight for the most basic contractual items. It will be almost impossible to get a decent contract and everyone will blame USAPA (especially outsiders), when in fact it will have been ALPA's fault for creating the situation. This is why "Max pay to the last day" is not such an insane position after all! I can't help it but to ask, what idiots would not have put a snap-back into the fear based LOA93?

 

[luvthe9]

I can't help it but to ask, what idiots would not have put a snap-back into the fear based LOA93?

Doug Mowery, LOA 93 was his baby!!!

 

[crazystnic]

Then the following resolution was brought to the floor. This was authored by Jeffrey Rosborough, but since he was not able to attend, it was proffered by Mark Matuszak:

WHEREAS, the ALPA Negotiating Committee had agreed in concept to switching to a West vacation bidding process, and

WHEREAS, USAPA has not addressed this issue in current talks, and

WHEREAS, this is a no cost item to the company and the company has no position, and

WHEREAS, the USAPA Constitution is based on Date of Hire Seniority principles in accordance with the Constitution, and seniority determines vacation awards,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that the USAPA Board of Pilot Representatives direct a request and support the change to our Negotiating Committee to negotiate the continued East bidding process for vacations.

Moved: Mark Matuszak

Second: Stafford Rogers

Vote by DCA pilots in attendance:

In Favor: 14

Opposed: 6

Motion Passes.

In essence, this resolution addresses the desire to have the NAC negotiate to continue with the current East bidding process for vacations where the number one pilot gets all of his choices for his available weeks of vacation then the number two pilot gets all of his choices based on what is still available and so on. This is compared to the current West version which has been tentatively agreed upon by the NAC and the Company, that allows for the number one pilot to get his first choice for his first week, then the number two pilot gets his choice for his first week and so on down the list until everyone has had the chance to bid their first week. Then it starts over where the number one pilot gets his next available choice for his second week... and so on down the list. Since this resolution passed by a vote of the DCA pilots in attendance, we will take it and present it to the Board for their attention and deliberation. If it passes at the Board level the NAC will be charged with addressing this section to obtain the change. This is a prime example of how you as line pilots can get together and provide us direction to take to the Board.

 

[Black Swan]

I've always said that Parker et al. say things that aren't true for effect and to deflect comment from any given audience. He does it when he says that there is no way that the arbitrator will find in favor of the pilots on the LOA 93 grievance. He's talking out his rear end. Nothing more. But really....how else could he possibly answer questions like that?

Parker sometimes actually seems like a decent guy. His public speaking skills, however, are seriously deficient. I really don't know how he got to the point of CEO, but here he is.

 

[Black Swan]

This technique was simply to create a lower baseline from which to start negotiations for our next contract. Brilliant on the company's part, moronic and fear based on ALPA's part. We are now going to have to fight for the most basic contractual items. It will be almost impossible to get a decent contract and everyone will blame USAPA (especially outsiders), when in fact it will have been ALPA's fault for creating the situation. This is why "Max pay to the last day" is not such an insane position after all! I can't help it but to ask, what idiots would not have put a snap-back into the fear based LOA93?

Hopefully Kasher will see the fact that pay was specifically selected to be the basis of LOA 93 itself. He should see there were no other items even addressed in the LOA. So the heart of the matter is why would there even be a LOA if there was no intent to bring the pay back on Dec 31, 2009? If the company and negotiators had no intent to have the pay revert, it would be addressed as vacation, medical, rigs and on and on. And they were addressed by no address. No LOA. No mention of vacation, rigs, anything except pay is embodied in LOA 93. That is my point of why he should see that LOA93 WAS specifically designed as the framework in which the the pay was to be highlighted, and addressed. That, was the intent. This, is why Kasher should deliver.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Hopefully Kasher will see the fact that pay was specifically selected to be the basis of LOA 93 itself. He should see there were no other items even addressed in the LOA. So the heart of the matter is why would there even be a LOA if there was no intent to bring the pay back on Dec 31, 2009? If the company and negotiators had no intent to have the pay revert, it would be addressed as vacation, medical, rigs and on and on. And they were addressed by no address. No LOA. No mention of vacation, rigs, anything except pay is embodied in LOA 93. That is my point of why he should see that LOA93 WAS specifically designed as the framework in which the the pay was to be highlighted, and addressed. That, was the intent. This, is why Kasher should deliver.

This is why DP sent us a 5 page letter denying it! Only DATED section of the LOA! MM!

 

[Freighterguynow]

It was not the West that walked out of negotiation.

Be sure to add ALPA as defendant.

 

[doh nogo]

Brilliant on the company's part, moronic and fear based on ALPA's part. We are now going to have to fight for the most basic contractual items. It will be almost impossible to get a decent contract and everyone will blame USAPA (especially outsiders), when in fact it will have been ALPA's fault for creating the situation.

A few questions if I may...

- Did the east use professional negotiators assigned by ALPA National, or were they east pilots?

- Were those east pilots elected into those positions, or were they thrust upon the east by some armed invasion?

- If the east pilots in charge of the union at USAirways, who were elected by east pilots, negotiated or agreed to a moronic and fear based contract with concession after concession, isn't it the said east pilots holding the bag for their own actions?

Never mind. I think we all know the answers. 🙄

Sounds like you're already finding excuses and scapegoats for USAPA's failure. But fear not. No one will blame USAPA. They will blame the EAST PILOTS.

 

[crazystnic]

A few questions if I may...

- Did the east use professional negotiators assigned by ALPA National, or were they east pilots?

- Were those east pilots elected into those positions, or were they thrust upon the east by some armed invasion?

- If the east pilots in charge of the union at USAirways, who were elected by east pilots, negotiated or agreed to a moronic and fear based contract with concession after concession, isn't it the said east pilots holding the bag for their own actions?

Never mind. I think we all know the answers. 🙄

Sounds like you're already finding excuses and scapegoats for USAPA's failure. But fear not. No one will blame USAPA. They will blame the EAST PILOTS.

**********************************************
Leadership comes from the top, Look at the Ford Motor Company.

What would of happened when they tried terminating our pension, IF the ALPA President would of came out and forcefully worked against it?

What if he would of rallied all the other Airlines? Maybe all the airlines wouldn't of had pension problems.

So to just blame the EAST pilots is ridiculous...

It starts from Leadership at the top

 

[cynic]

So to just blame the EAST pilots is ridiculous...

East pilots may not deserve all the blame, but certainly the lion's share