NMB Declares Delta/NW Single Transp. System

[Kev3188]

So now the ball is in AFA's court. AFA was hoping that it wouldnt happen until later this year possibly next, but now there is really no excuse to wait.

Again, I ask; what's the rush?

This is your opinion and not a fact.

My opinion is that both the AFA & IAM are waiting for two things: First, to make sure they have their ducks in a row as far as cards/numbers (more so for the IAM than AFA), and second is to wait for Obama to appoint the third member of the NMB.

Does it really matter when the vote is held ? For the most part, I'm sure people's minds are already made up as to which side of the fence they stand on. Dragging your feet,i.e. AFA, IAM, from my point of view, won't help their cause in the end !

It does matter. I don't think it is a matter of "dragging their feet" so much as it's an issue of "measuring twice & cutting once."

 

[BABABOOY]

Again, I ask; what's the rush?

Hi Kevin,

For F/A's there is a rush. On the ground, agents can work side by side
even though they are two different representative work groups. However F/A's can not.
With the 'Mixing of the fleet" everything is disrupted in the bases.
you will have pre-merger F/A's who may have to move to MSP/DTW
temporarily to cover the "new Satellite base". This is just the beginning
of what I call a rough year. The sooner this is cleared up, and we can
all fly together, the better. IMHO. As I noted in earlier threads, any delay
in this itergration will look badly for the AFA. F/A's have patience in the air,
not so much when we get on the ground. (i am still looking for the crew line
at the grocery store) ;-)

 

[Dignity]

in my opinion what needs to happen is a process done...timely...(while showing an attempt to be cooperative and part of the process) realize a list of those who have full intention on moving forward...after the buyouts have been awarded and make sure the list is accurate....the numbers regarding (active employees) for an election.

 

[jalbalpa]

Does it really matter when the vote is held ? For the most part, I'm sure people's minds are already made up as to which side of the fence they stand on. Dragging your feet,i.e. AFA, IAM, from my point of view, won't help their cause in the end !

This is absolutely untrue, some of the people have made up their mind. Most are leaning on way of the other. Many employees have misinformation, such as "NW F/A's are way senior to Delta F/A's", with time this will be corrected and the employees will have the correct information.

I believe that the unions would like to wait until Obama appoints a new member to the NMB, this will ensure a fair election.

Again, I ask; what's the rush?

There is no rush, however this needs to be taken care of at the appropriate time.

For F/A's there is a rush. On the ground, agents can work side by side
even though they are two different representative work groups. However F/A's can not.
With the 'Mixing of the fleet" everything is disrupted in the bases.
you will have pre-merger F/A's who may have to move to MSP/DTW
temporarily to cover the "new Satellite base". This is just the beginning
of what I call a rough year. The sooner this is cleared up, and we can
all fly together, the better. IMHO. As I noted in earlier threads, any delay
in this itergration will look badly for the AFA.

For the misinformed F/A's there is a rush.

Delta just submitted the training proposal to the FAA for approval. Once it is approved Delta can begin training for F/A's, according to a recent memo if everything goes as planned (it usually doesn't in these type of transactions) the training should begin in May 2009 and be complete 1Q2010. So if representation issues are taken care of tomorrow...or in March/April, it will not have an impact of when we can all fly together.

Remember, we don't want to rush into anything. It could cost us in the long run, however...we don't want to take forever because F/A's are in the best interest of AFA and the membership will be the top priority as it has always been.

 

[Dignity]

you will have pre-merger F/A's who may have to move to MSP/DTW
temporarily to cover the "new Satellite base".

I assume that depends on what is planned to be moved from one hub to another, if it is a huge expansive transfer initially, there may be an issue...if the situation involves a single flight or a very limited number of aircraft substitution(to right size a market) there may not actually be a need to move anyone...taking into consideration there are those (pre-merger Flight Attendants) who may live at all the current hubs, representing both groups. Just as there are those who live in the Atlanta surrounding area(Pre-merger NW), I am sure the same is true for the Detroit Metropolitan area as well(Pre-merger DAL) and so on..

but when there is a need.. there is a need..

I remember my very first airline interview...I can recall one particular woman, mid 20's she wore a white dress with a beige belt (while everyone else were in darker colored business suits and interview attire) she stood out so much from the rest of everyone and she was so nice sitting right next to me in that large group, at that hotel convention room.. where the interviews for "Flight Attendant" were being held that day....I remember she said basically..she was going "anywhere" they send her...she was going to be a Flight Attendant no matter where she has to go and she is going to love it...she was stunning, she was just so nice and she smiled at everyone..she was excited just about life it seemed..I remember briefly as I was leaving the room..I noticed they pulled her aside and the recruiters took her to another room(with a few others) as they were standing in the hallway, that late afternoon many years ago.

at my next airline interview...

I recall one of the questions being asked "are you willing to relocate" and to the other side of the country if "we needed you there"...and this time.. I said "yes"...(and I meant it)....they never told me the time frame would be just for a month, or just for a year, they never told me any length of time...at all.., they just simply asked if I was willing to do that..

 

[BABABOOY]

I assume that depends on what is planned to be moved from one hub to another, if it is a huge expansive transfer initially, there may be an issue...if the situation involves a single flight or a very limited number of aircraft substitution(to right size a market) there may not actually be a need to move anyone...taking into consideration there are those (pre-merger Flight Attendants) who may live at all the current hubs, representing both groups. Just as there are those who live in the Atlanta surrounding area(Pre-merger NW), I am sure the same is true for the Detroit Metropolitan area as well(Pre-merger DAL) and so on..

It will be very interesting if they can get the numbers without forcing a move.
60-72 for DTW.. and 70-80 for MSP... Do we have that many who want to make the
move?

 

[BABABOOY]

This is absolutely untrue, some of the people have made up their mind. Most are leaning on way of the other. Many employees have misinformation, such as "NW F/A's are way senior to Delta F/A's", with time this will be corrected and the employees will have the correct information.

How can it be untrue if you don't have the combined list ? Yes I agree that in time
we will have the correct information. ONE way or the OTHER.
Again, misinformed or not, Any PERCEPTION that the process will be delayed
will not work well for the AFA. The informed F/A knows to expect intergration in
early '10. Anything keeping eachother off the other a/c will no bode well.

 

[jalbalpa]

How can it be untrue if you don't have the combined list ?

You don't need the combined list to see who is more senior.

You need one of the lists and the F/A's from the other carrier.

If you have the NW list:

Take a DL F/A, his/her seniority number, and seniority date.

Take the DL seniority number, divide it by 13500(thats approx how many DL F/A's are on the list). You get a number.

Lets say you are number 8000 on the DL list, you get 59.3%.

Look at the seniority dates on the NW side, find where you fall in. Lets say its X , divide it by 7702 (Thats how many NW F/A's are on the list). you get a number.

If X divided by 7702 is lower than 59.3% then at your seniority NW F/A's are junior. If its higher than its senior.

I have done this with about 40 DL F/A's ranging from 2 years seniority to 45 years seniority. Only a handful of DL F/A's have come out junior. Its mostly by 0-2%, its a very balanced list but it leans Delta.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

It will be very interesting if they can get the numbers without forcing a move.
60-72 for DTW.. and 70-80 for MSP... Do we have that many who want to make the
move?

I thought DL said they wouldn't force moves...or more specifically, if they didn't get the numbers they needed, they would figure something else out --longer rotations from ATL ?(paraphrased).

 

[Dignity]

It will be very interesting if they can get the numbers without forcing a move.
60-72 for DTW.. and 70-80 for MSP... Do we have that many who want to make the
move?

I know that some already live at these hubs or very close(as I have encountered them at times while they are commuting) ..but more than likely the other you mentioned...it is probably regarding the part of Flight Attendants being flexible and reliable, willing to relocate and working well with new people comes into the picture?
so if they basically said they really needed someone to go, people would look at that situation as being forced.. instead of helping to do what was needed for the spirit of the company being so..."family" oriented as its mentioned so often?
I would only hope that a situation would be simply viewed as... accommodating a need reflected by genuine enthusiasm and a real wiliness to help out when needed (especially if it was only for a time being).

 

[Dignity]

I thought DL said they wouldn't force moves...or more specifically, if they didn't get the numbers they needed, they would figure something else out --longer rotations from ATL ?(paraphrased).

I am trying to recall from years ago, but I remember passing through DTW and remembering a nonstop flight to London from DTW on DAL? that departed from the C concourse.(at the end of the concourse, because there was a gate there that could accomidate a widebody, because NW used a DC10 at that gate at times, after they constructed the wing to that concourse) and DAL moved to the Smith.. was that a layover for Flight Attendant at that time or did they have a small alternate base? because I have met a few DAL Flight Attendants who want to transfer to DTW because they live in that area.
so if considering some lived in the area and actually wanted to be based there...they would not at least consider that and instead just build longer patterns from other hubs if the numbers did not meet projection, even though they may reach..for example at least 50 percent of the number needed? (and even though people may actually live there that would fully partcipate) they would come back and say sorry?

 

[dapoes]

This is absolutely untrue, some of the people have made up their mind. Most are leaning on way of the other. Many employees have misinformation, such as "NW F/A's are way senior to Delta F/A's", with time this will be corrected and the employees will have the correct information.

And you are the keeper of all things true? Sorry but I think other DAL dumpers here have trumped you on that already.

I believe that the unions would like to wait until Obama appoints a new member to the NMB, this will ensure a fair election.

Of course that's their sole motivation despite whatever lame-arse excuses they have mentioned in the past. I even mentioned the same thing however others in the past here seem to have disagreed.

They are hoping Obama will save them (which he cant), with the NMB. Good luck with that. Im sure when AFA fails miserably again they will place blame at the feet of everyone else (including the newly appointed NMB blah blah) again.

There is no rush, however this needs to be taken care of at the appropriate time.

And who dictates the appropriate time? AFA?

Remember, we don't want to rush into anything. It could cost us in the long run, however...we don't want to take forever because F/A's are in the best interest of AFA and the membership will be the top priority as it has always been.

Time will only sour AFA's chances.

 

[Dignity]

Of course that's their sole motivation

Dapoes,

when you replied on that comment by Jalbalpa, that person said "I believe" that is an isolated view, so you cannot really make a broad assumption that is "their" sole motivation in response to someone who stated a personal opinion.

 

[dapoes]

Dapoes,

when you replied on that comment by Jalbalpa, that person said "I believe" that is an isolated view, so you cannot really make a broad assumption that is "their" sole motivation in response to someone who stated a personal opinion.

I was referring to AFA so it should have read: "Of course that's their (AFA) sole motivation"

 

[Dignity]

I was referring to AFA so it should have read: "Of course that's their (AFA) sole motivation"

Well no Dapoes,

Jalbalpa stated...
"I believe that the unions would like to wait until Obama appoints a new member to the NMB, this will ensure a fair election." that is a personal opinion.

then you stated...
"Of course that's their sole motivation despite whatever lame-arse excuses they have mentioned in the past." in response to Jalbalpa comments..

what you did was take a personal opinion and then based one person's view and make that a blanket generalization or broad assumption that is the entire groups "sole motivation".

that is of course, your personal opinion.

so what we have here is Jalbalpa's personal opinion, your personal opinion and then of course my personal opinion regarding what both of you are referring, but absolutely not a group's sole motivation.