NMB Speaks: We Have an Election! ALPA/USAPA Topic for 2/19-26

[AAA73Pilot]

Nah, you guys are the ones trying to knock yourself out it looks like. You think you've got it all figured out....again. I don't know jack, really, but at least I'm aware of it, I'm not so sure about you.

Well, we'll just have to play it out. I am more aware than you think. We have differing opinions and smarter people than us will duke it out after the election.

 

[EastUS]

You've been mitigating it so far haven't you? Prater just lets you guys pull out of negotiations and do about any other thing that you want. Your losing out on some improvements in the meantime, but we've already been over that. I guess the only problem at the moment is you can't eat your cake to...

I know you believe you will have a simple majority vote with usapa, but are you really sure? What about when it gets tested, you may find you hit a snag, but then again I'm just speculating. I know you've got it all covered, I'll just shut up now.

None can know the future in fullness. I fully know what history's been with Alpo.

 

[EastUS]

This whole mess isn't about ALPA. They're your diversionary tactic. It's all about you not getting what you wanted and throwing a tantrum until you do.

I'm not the least bit throwing any tantrum about "not getting what you wanted" as the Nic fiasco doesn't much effect me personally. It may seem utterly astonishing to anyone posessed of the fine moral principles clearly needed to gladly seek "seniority" over those with two decades more flying/work/etc, and are apparently obsesed with the personal greed required for defending the St Nic gift...but; my gripe's actually with Alpo. Nice try though.

Ummm..exB717Flyer: "Three years of USAirways Express flying and three years of TWA flying." Really?...That much?... and even a very few at AWA?...small wonder that you're such a staunch "gimme my Nic!...NOW!" sort 😉 ..talk about "tantrums"...."high school"/etc..sheesh. As for Nic? = Excuse me if I've zero interest in surrendering a "junior" comrade's real-world (ie: twice+ your experience) seniority to you for life

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Well, we'll just have to play it out. I am more aware than you think. We have differing opinions and smarter people than us will duke it out after the election.

I'm not saying you don't have it figured out, you may be 100% right on all counts for all I know. I'm just trying to say that thinking you have it all figured out can be dangerous, thats all. My gut tells me should usapa prevail, east and west alike will all be sorry to some degree, I don't see a whole lot of positives.

 

[nostradamus]

Three years of USAirways Express flying and three years of TWA flying. I know your type quite well. You're not special.

Sir,

I have met original TWA pilots, I have witnessed how TWA pilots were screwed by alpa. I have studied what the original TWA pilots have contributed to make aviation what it is today.

Inspired by a former Senator Lloyd Bentsen speech, sir, you are not anything close to the integrity that the original TWA pilots had.

 

[nostradamus]

Study up on alpa. Pan Am, Eastern, Braniff, TWA, original Continental, Frontier, United, Delta and Usair. They were the pioneers of the industry, they invented the airline industry as it is known today. A lot of them came from wars that scared them.

It is easy to fly an airplane when you are not getting shot at. Some of these folks were treated like manure by alpa. Let us thank them by being the first airline to vote their lazy, pompous, ever loving soft hinders out of office. I do not deserve to be in the same room as the pioneer pilots I have just described, but I will at least try to change things in their honor.

USAPA will not get rid of the nic award, but it will get rid of alpa.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Study up on alpa. Pan Am, Eastern, Braniff, TWA, original Continental, Frontier, United, Delta and Usair. They were the pioneers of the industry, they invented the airline industry as it is known today. A lot of them came from wars that scared them.

USAPA will not get rid of the nic award, but it will get rid of alpa.

The Braniff and TWA guys I flew with were a wealth of knowledge and history. Great to work with by the way.

"Rid of ALPA" No finer words spoken.

 

[N924PS]

USAPA will not get rid of the nic award, but it will get rid of alpa.

And because it WON'T get rid of the Nic award many of us feel ALPA is the best of two bad choices.

 

[Leonidas]

It really gets convoluted doesn't it? I was at the ALPA Informational Meeting last Thurs. in CLT. The esteemed ALPA lawyers were more than happy, spring loaded in fact, to tell the pilots that if USAPA wins the election the Transition Agreement disappears. Seems all the quasi west lawyers say it remains. hhmm IMO It seems there is quite a conundrum developing.

The only conundrum is for usapa, it the TA does go away, then the Nic. list is effective that day, if it stays, you need separate ratification to get a contract, eithe way it looks like usapa wining would implement the Nic. quicker than national.

 

[b737fo]

Sir,

I have met original TWA pilots, I have witnessed how TWA pilots were screwed by alpa. I have studied what the original TWA pilots have contributed to make aviation what it is today.

Inspired by a former Senator Lloyd Bentsen speech, sir, you are not anything close to the integrity that the original TWA pilots had.

Way to keep the posts on topic and not personal again Nos....

EastUS: What seems astonishing to me is that anyone would seek to magically go from barely being recalled all the way to block holding narrowbody Captain position by jumping over a thousand pilots if it weren't for some contrived fences. Fences don't protect when bases get closed or new ones open due to the mergered company potentially changing strategy from either separate entity that formed it. And I ask again. What about new orders and routes from the success of the combined company? Who flies new equipment and what about equipment one company bought but had delivered to another base? I thought USAPA was about protecting pre-merger company expectations.

 

[P51Pilot]

The only conundrum is for usapa, it the TA does go away, then the Nic. list is effective that day, if it stays, you need separate ratification to get a contract, eithe way it looks like usapa wining would implement the Nic. quicker than national.

Actually if the TA goes away, it is back to the individual contracts. Minimum fleet, profit sharing, DC contribution, successor language are all contained in the East contract not the West, so the only thing that changes is the West loses all the protection in the TA. If you couple that with the fact that US Airways management believes that without the TA, the West could be placed under LOA 93, it is even grimmer for the west. As bad as LOA 93 is, it stipulates seniority based on DOH and there is no NIC contained in that agreement and when it is ammednable, USAPA surely won't negotiate the language in the next contract. If you want to spread FUD, talk to your own group because that is where the risks truly lay.

 

[nostradamus]

Way to keep the posts on topic and not personal again Nos....

Crying for the moderator when your icon on all your posts depict one of our pilot getting his head chopped off. That is as personal and off topic as you can get.

 

[Phoenix]

Well you see it was our alpa that is the problem, not national alpa. We were not allowed to vote, yet we are responsible for the mec we voted in. Yet once we voted them in we were not allowed to vote again and they are given national alpa jobs after they decide what is best for us. National alpa is alpa and our local mec alpa is alpa but we can not........................????????????????????

“No! No! No! YOU ARE ALPA!â€￾ That's what the chiefs always say when the indians complain.

But now that the indians are in full recognition that they ARE the union and have the ability to steer it (or completely rebuild it from the bottom up) then the chiefs start screaming.. "YOU ARE NOTHING WITHOUT US. YOU CAN"T BUILD CRAP. WE ARE THE SKY GODS AND YOU BETTER NOT MAKE US MAD OR WE WILL WRITE ANOTHER STEARNLY WORDED LETTER…. AND IT WILL BE DIRECTED AT YOU. YOU… YOU…. YOU BETER WATCH OUT OR WE WILL HAVE TO SHOW YOU HOW MUCH WE APPRECIATE OUR UNION BROTHERS AND SISTERS. Oh, and could you send us a bigger check next time? Hmm. Please. Pretty please. And remember honeypie, vote for us. :wub: â€￾

 

[EastUS]

The only conundrum is for usapa, it the TA does go away, then the Nic. list is effective that day, if it stays, you need separate ratification to get a contract, eithe way it looks like usapa wining would implement the Nic. quicker than national.

That's another fine example of alpa-spin technique, seasoned with the standard attempts at fear mongering and wholesale disinformation. If the situation could even possibly unfold as you now claim: WHY then, are you such a devout alpo supporter?...Goat got your tounge? I refer to your famous alpo goat film of course...in which you rather graphically displayed your actual expectations in the event of alpo being dumped, whilst otherwise trumpeting the greater glory of alpa to ridiculous levels...How soon we "forget" it seems 😉

 

[AAA73Pilot]

The only conundrum is for usapa, it the TA does go away, then the Nic. list is effective that day, if it stays, you need separate ratification to get a contract, eithe way it looks like usapa wining would implement the Nic. quicker than national.

There is no problem if USAPA gets elected. What is the problem is the status of the TA. ALPA says the TA disappears after the election. Some west posters think it stays. Before you get to wrapped up in the FUD, you really ought to go back and look at what the TA actually says versus your contract. I am inclined to believe ALPA on this one. And the Nic list lives in which contract? Not in mine. Yours maybe? I don't think so.

P51Pilot

Actually if the TA goes away, it is back to the individual contracts. Minimum fleet, profit sharing, DC contribution, successor language are all contained in the East contract not the West, so the only thing that changes is the West loses all the protection in the TA. If you couple that with the fact that US Airways management believes that without the TA, the West could be placed under LOA 93, it is even grimmer for the west. As bad as LOA 93 is, it stipulates seniority based on DOH and there is no NIC contained in that agreement and when it is ammednable, USAPA surely won't negotiate the language in the next contract. If you want to spread FUD, talk to your own group because that is where the risks truly lay.