NWA F/A's Welcome AFA

[finman]

Alas poor beancounters have no such protection.

Because we don't need nor want protection.

I will agree that you raise a valid point, however in something as subjective as evaluating flight deck and cabin crews how do you do this? Let's face it, the airlines often are rushing when safety or procedural issues prevent an early or on-time push. Someone who wasn't on the aircraft and is in some nice cubicle somewhere is making evaluations that they have no clue about.

Just how do you propose to evaluate those personnel?

I raised the point only in objection to merit being considered a bad thing, rather than an ideal. In a perfect world, cabin crew would be compensated based on merit, bad as you rightly point out, there is no practical manner in which to measure an employee's value to the company when you have a very large workforce like NWA. Thus, pay scales are the only practical solution, since they represent the most fair solution, and length of service should have a fairly strong correlation to performance (to a certain point).

 

[local 12 proud]

Because we don't need nor want protection.

Of course you don't, its easy to gain merit on your knees.

 

[700UW]

A FA's main job is for safety, not be waitress.

 

[finman]

Of course you don't, its easy to gain merit on your knees.

Have you ever been friends with anyone that doesn't work in a union? Do you have any familiarity with what life is like outside of your little union worshipping world? Just curious, because you seem to be so completely ignorant when you attempt to speak of employer-employee relationships in the non-union world.

As an aside, your little quip is certainly typical of your debating style, but it still throws me when I see a fairly well educated adult resort to such jouvenile, thoughtless banter.

Are you going to try encourage your children to get a professional degree such as Accounting, Law, Medicine, Finance etc., or are you going to direct them to a union craft? If you want the latter, but they choose the former, are you going to despise them for choosing a career path that you believe is spent on ones knees?

 

[groundcontrol]

I have one tin knocker and
one pursuing future bean counter of America status.

I am proud of both of them

 

[local 12 proud]

Have you ever been friends with anyone that doesn't work in a union? Do you have any familiarity with what life is like outside of your little union worshipping world? Just curious, because you seem to be so completely ignorant when you attempt to speak of employer-employee relationships in the non-union world.

As an aside, your little quip is certainly typical of your debating style, but it still throws me when I see a fairly well educated adult resort to such jouvenile, thoughtless banter.

Are you going to try encourage your children to get a professional degree such as Accounting, Law, Medicine, Finance etc., or are you going to direct them to a union craft? If you want the latter, but they choose the former, are you going to despise them for choosing a career path that you believe is spent on ones knees?

I have many friends who are non-union, none are beancounters I must admit. Yes I've worked non-union as well and seen how the system works, i've been in management and did'nt fit the mold because Im not a good yes man. I refuse to candy coat things finny, I refuse to fudge the books, I refuse to pencil whip, I refuse to agree with my superior when I know they are dead wrong just to advance my status on the ladder.

My children are grown and I've always supported whatever their dreams and aspirations may be. I put a daughter thru college who recieved a bachelor in buisness and now manages a Bar and Grill making more than myself at half my age. My eldest Son will be entering service into the U.S. Navy soon because he chooses too serve his country, he chose this over college which is fine by me because he will succeed at whatever he does. I raised my children to be true to themselves and to follow their convictions, and to never surrender those beliefs.

As for my debating style finny, well all I can say is you can't debate whith someone who does'nt know jack about my craft other than what they garner from some statistic. Believe it or not Ive been in this Buisness well over 20 years and have seen alot. Do you have to have a union shop to get quality maintenance? of course not, Delta once had a good program but they too have decided to save a few bucks by outsourcing. In the end it will come back to haunt them and I stake my reputation on it!

 

[jenny@nw]

These issues that are going on has nothing to do with the union, rather how the employees are respected.

 

[local 12 proud]

These issues that are going on has nothing to do with the union, rather how the employees are respected.

Don't you mean Disrespected?

 

[jenny@nw]

Don't you mean Disrespected?

Well either or. Most of these office jobs can be outsourced easily.... it all started out with tickets.................................. :down:

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Serious question to the FA types out there.
Do you really think a new union will take you out on strike before they've collected a dime in dues from you?
Yes, it may sound rhetorical but I offer it as an honest question.
JMHO I think you're about to get forced into an agreement with the promise of getting them another day, ala IAM.

Forgive me for replying to my own message but did I call this or what?

Check out this quote from the NWA FA TA announcement.

"With the airline in bankruptcy, this deal was always going to be about survival," said Mollie Reiley, Northwest Interim Master Executive Council (MEC) President. "We left no stone unturned and have made a significant difference together, but this is not a day that we celebrate. We have an agreement that will give flight attendants hope for the future and one that allows us to fight another day."

Flight attendants voted down a previous tentative agreement by an overwhelming margin. AFA-CWA, who was elected as the new union for the Northwest flight attendants less than 10 days ago, went to work immediately, restarting negotiations that led to this tentative agreement.

I haven't seen the particulars, but having been through negotiations before, for AFA to come on board and squeeze out a TA this quickly.......well lets just say I think you're screwed.

Anybody wanna bet AFA doesn't get forced to jump through the same dues collecting hurdles PFAA did???

Things that make you go "hmmmmm" :down:

 

[Hackman]

Forgive me for replying to my own message but did I call this or what?

Check out this quote from the NWA FA TA announcement.
I haven't seen the particulars, but having been through negotiations before, for AFA to come on board and squeeze out a TA this quickly.......well lets just say I think you're screwed.

Anybody wanna bet AFA doesn't get forced to jump through the same dues collecting hurdles PFAA did???

Things that make you go "hmmmmm" :down:

The AFA is afl-cio affiliated and its a well known fact they are bought by big business, aka business unionism. (Read "Taking Care of Business", by Paul Buhle. http://www.monthlyreview.org/tcb.htm ) The AFA is nothing but another bought and paid for paper tiger union like the iam, twu, alpa. Never strike...always settle. The F/A's should have walked with AMFA, and put Dougie Stealin' and his ever richer thugs out of business. Now the F/A group will watch as Dougie and friends quickly deminishes F/A careers to nothing as its doing to the iam with concessions and layoffs. The afa will stand by and do nothing but collect your dues and say the same old quote; "Its the best we could do in a bad situation.... Then turn around and try to sell you on the union life insurance, and credit card scams. What a great deal. :down: :angry:

 

[PurduePete]

For what it's worth: most of the people currently with interim positions in the AFA at NW used to hold positions with the Teamsters - the F/A's bargaining agent before they were replaced with the PFAA.

 

[Spock]

Forgive me for replying to my own message but did I call this or what?

Check out this quote from the NWA FA TA announcement.
I haven't seen the particulars, but having been through negotiations before, for AFA to come on board and squeeze out a TA this quickly.......well lets just say I think you're screwed.

Anybody wanna bet AFA doesn't get forced to jump through the same dues collecting hurdles PFAA did???

Things that make you go "hmmmmm" :down:

I'll bet you that if the dues hurdle is NOT in there, the TA will pass. Watch how the process is done also. B)

 

[JAMAKE1]

I haven't seen the particulars, but having been through negotiations before, for AFA to come on board and squeeze out a TA this quickly.......well lets just say I think you're screwed.

Anybody wanna bet AFA doesn't get forced to jump through the same dues collecting hurdles PFAA did???

Things that make you go "hmmmmm" :down:

This quickly? What do you mean? They negotiated past the deadline, at which point NWA management was free to impose their own contract terms.

As far as your latter statement, labor usually gets screwed in most concessionary agreements. I think AFA did it's job, presuming this TA ratifies: They stepped up to the plate to reach a concentual agreement that hopefully addressed the issues that lead to an 80% rejection in the PFAA tentative.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

This quickly? What do you mean? They negotiated past the deadline, at which point NWA management was free to impose their own contract terms.

As far as your latter statement, labor usually gets screwed in most concessionary agreements. I think AFA did it's job, presuming this TA ratifies: They stepped up to the plate to reach a concentual agreement that hopefully addressed the issues that lead to an 80% rejection in the PFAA tentative.

Yes, "This quickly".

Just how long has AFA been the certified bargaining agent at NWA?

Yet "This quickly" they come on board, put new people in place and now suddenly theres a TA.

I doubt AFA changed very much at all, we'll see. :unsure: