OCT/NOV 2012 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[Kev3188]

Read the Ryan Budget Proposal carefully… I’ve done all of this… and I cannot find a single thing that would benefit me personally, or within the workplace! Maybe I’m stupid and brainwashed as many of the GOP supporters claim!

You're not either of those things.

Ryan's plan offers *zero* to working class Americans. And for our union sisters, his (their) agenda is even worse.

and i would ask that everyone who's thinking about voting for the Democrats remember that it's YOUR PARTY that's insourcing the third world labor right now ... how many MILLIONS of our people are unemployed right now , and the president is authorizing ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS to work legally within our country ....

i mean seriously what IS that ? really ? seriously .......

So when a Republican is sitting in the White House, it's okay?

Maybe you should check out 1986's Immigration Reform and Control Act.

 

[blue collar]

Yes jester, if the employers paid more then Americans would be working those jobs and the illegal debate would be moot. If there are no jobs here for the 'illegals', then you will see their numbers dwindle. That was the point I was alluding to. The blame lies mainly with employers trying to get labor on the cheap.

 

[roabilly]

Freedom...

You never cease to amaze with your ludicrous statements... News Flash... Migrant Labor and outsourcing to China have been going on in full force for over three DECADES! You sound like the people that argue the economy just suddenly, and miraculously went to h*** since Obama took office!

Here's another News Flash-- When the President took oath, this country was losing 800,000 jobs a month thanks to Bush’s flawed policies of protecting the wealthy. The President has created more than 4 million including saving the entire auto Industry, along with all the peripheral contract businesses that support it!

Further, the DOW was below 7000 when Bush casually waltzed away from the devastation... today under Obama it hovers above 13,000! Of course, all of this was done while the GOP majority in congress under the Norquist pledge, blocked and opposed virtually every single move to assure he failed!

Greed moved jobs overseas... even if Labor Unions had never existed, simple principals of Global Capitalism would have prevailed against a decent living wage in the USA.

Essentially, the standards of living in other countries allows for labor at pennies on the dollar. In the case of China, not only are people working for pennies on the dollar, but they receive subsidies through the Social System. How can an American Worker compete with a system like that even at minimum wage with no benefits?

 

[freedom]

Roabilly ...

there is NO justitification to brining in illegal immigrants to work in the United States when millions of Americans are unemployed ... you can cite a hundred other policies , but that doesn't justify one INSANE policy .....

As to you KEV i am well aware that the republican party has been somehwat complicit in brining in illegal immigrants , and or looking the other way .......

but that in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM means it's OK to allow illegal immigrants the right to work in our country when our own people can't find decent paying jobs ..

I can never support the democrats as long as they support brining in people who will ALWAYS work for less ...and what i'm saying is a fact , they will ALWAYS seek to displace us , to take jobs that were once decent paying , and drive down the wages through competition with illegal workers .... then later after most Americans have abaonded that particular industry , be it janitorial work , construction , what have you , they will turn around and MOCK us by saying their just doing the jobs that Americans are too lazy to do .......... which i might add is B/S because those jobs that used to pay a livable wage have been driven down pay wise to almost nothing , and then it's no wonder Americans don't want to do construction for 7.50 an hour with no benfits ..

i don't know where all of you have been lately , but the president has been pushing a mini DREAM act that at first was estimated to grant work permits to "only" around a few hundred thousand illegal immigrants , then that number rose to 700K , then it was revised again to 1.2 million ... the last number i heard that could be able to seek employment through this act is close to 2 MILLION ..............

 

[Jester]

Yes jester, if the employers paid more then Americans would be working those jobs and the illegal debate would be moot. If there are no jobs here for the 'illegals', then you will see their numbers dwindle. That was the point I was alluding to. The blame lies mainly with employers trying to get labor on the cheap.

But it is two sides... pro-business Republicans looking for cheap labor and Democrats looking for an increased voter base. Let us not forget it was Reagan who created the most significant immigration "reform" in the past 30 years and Obama who is trying to pass his own version. Either way, low-skilled Americans took a hit (or will take a hit) from additional competition for those few reminding decent paying jobs available.

I question holding businesses liable in such a Draconian level, because the law of unintended consequences would discourage employers from hiring anyone with brown skin or an accent, but I have little doubt large numbers of employers are ignoring the laws entirely.

Jester.

 

[roabilly]

Freedom,

You are still the same after all these years! I remember your arguments and outright fantasies regarding the Industry in 08! Remember when you said that US was going to go completely out of business? Remember telling all of us in this forum that you… and ONLY you were intelligent enough to see the truth?

I guess you are still in this dubious, yet envious position of being so well informed, educated, and intelligent, that you struggle in frustration with the rest of us that are only “average”, and simply cannot comprehend your complex reality!

 

[freedom]

Freedom,

You are still the same after all these years! I remember your arguments and outright fantasies regarding the Industry in 08! Remember when you said that US was going to go completely out of business? Remember telling all of us in this forum that you… and ONLY you were intelligent enough to see the truth?

I guess you are still in this dubious, yet envious position of being so well informed, educated, and intelligent, that you struggle in frustration with the rest of us that are only “average”, and simply cannot comprehend your complex reality!

Freedom,

You are still the same after all these years! I remember your arguments and outright fantasies regarding the Industry in 08! Remember when you said that US was going to go completely out of business? Remember telling all of us in this forum that you… and ONLY you were intelligent enough to see the truth?

I guess you are still in this dubious, yet envious position of being so well informed, educated, and intelligent, that you struggle in frustration with the rest of us that are only “average”, and simply cannot comprehend your complex reality!

let's cut to the chase .......

do you agree with the presidents decision to grant work permits to illegal immigrants who are in our country ?

yes or no .....................

 

[ograc]

One very important fact needs to be considered in the upcoming election. By design of our founding fathers, the Executive Branch of the government (the White House), has limited control over the policies and laws of this land. There were checks and balances put in place to ensure this. The Legislative Branch of the government (The Senate and Congress) has a more direct influence on the policies and laws adopted through proposed legislation. In a two party system whichever group controls the majority (Republican / Democrat) in these entites stands a much better chance of forwarding their agenda. Likewise, this check and balance two party system, has lead to much of the gridlock in Washington. This gridlock is what frustrates the voting American citizens. My point is... voters should be just as focused on who they elect as their Congressional and Senatorial representatives as they are on their Presidential candidate. Otherwise, it's kinda like voting down a tentative contract agreement, but not voting for authorization for a strike... dumb. Watch who you are voting for in the Legislative Branch of the government. It is of equal importance as to who you choose to vote for President. But above all... VOTE! Many have sacrificed their lives for your right.

 

[mike33]

let's cut to the chase .......

do you agree with the presidents decision to grant work permits to illegal immigrants who are in our country ?

yes or no .....................

NO.!!!..It's a diverse bill and a lot to digest. .But hell freedom, i know ur not illegal, but this country is founded on immigration.... Consider your last name and look at its history ! ....... i still wouldn't vote for Romney!

 

[cltrat]

I don’t condone race as an issue in ANYTHING! Poor judgment and/or oversight was most certainly at work here. I know many of the people in key positions at the CLT Local, and none of them, to my knowledge, would intentionally convey a message that contained racial connotations.

well apparently one of them did as I find it most unlikely the printer added it.
most of the officers there have been in place for years, I am not going to say here of course but I could venture a good guess on the one who did it.
When I have heard him speak in the past I went away convinced that if Satan himself was on the ballot and had a (D) by his name he would tell you to vote for him.

I am not going to argue the whole politics thing here, I don't think it's the forum for one and I'd just soon stay clear of telling a man his politics or religion.
Beside we could argue all all day and you won't convince me nor I you
so let's just agree on everyone go Vote!


I will say I never vote a straight ticket and likely will not this time, I vote for the person

 

[ograc]

Roabilly ...

there is NO justitification to brining in illegal immigrants to work in the United States when millions of Americans are unemployed ... you can cite a hundred other policies , but that doesn't justify one INSANE policy .....

As to you KEV i am well aware that the republican party has been somehwat complicit in brining in illegal immigrants , and or looking the other way .......

but that in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM means it's OK to allow illegal immigrants the right to work in our country when our own people can't find decent paying jobs ..

I can never support the democrats as long as they support brining in people who will ALWAYS work for less ...and what i'm saying is a fact , they will ALWAYS seek to displace us , to take jobs that were once decent paying , and drive down the wages through competition with illegal workers .... then later after most Americans have abaonded that particular industry , be it janitorial work , construction , what have you , they will turn around and MOCK us by saying their just doing the jobs that Americans are too lazy to do .......... which i might add is B/S because those jobs that used to pay a livable wage have been driven down pay wise to almost nothing , and then it's no wonder Americans don't want to do construction for 7.50 an hour with no benfits ..

i don't know where all of you have been lately , but the president has been pushing a mini DREAM act that at first was estimated to grant work permits to "only" around a few hundred thousand illegal immigrants , then that number rose to 700K , then it was revised again to 1.2 million ... the last number i heard that could be able to seek employment through this act is close to 2 MILLION ..............

Freedom,
You are allowing your vote to be influenced by one "hot button issue". Do you really believe the GOP or Democratic party has immigration legislation as their top priority? Do you believe either party has the definitive answer to this issue? IMO... niether party will make any true or meaningful progress on this issue in the future. My advise to you would be to focus more on which party represents the best interests of the middle class, brown baggin worker who makes an honest wage and benefits like ourselves. Leave all of the empty campaign promises and rhetoric outside of the voting booth. Vote for your future best interests as a union represented airline worker.
ograc

 

[roabilly]

let's cut to the chase .......

do you agree with the presidents decision to grant work permits to illegal immigrants who are in our country ?

yes or no .....................

The Immigration Reforms the President ordered are a TEMPORARY solution to an immense problem. Attempting to identify almost a million of these non-citizens is virtually impossible without this legislation. Further, it would cost the US taxpayers hundreds of millions using the antiquated “identify and deport” system, while yielding few… if any results.

The legislation allows for these young people to identify themselves, and become recorded as being in the United States WITHOUT Citizenship. The legislation does not lead to Citizenship… period!

Now I have a question for you… how many Illegal Immigrants do you currently work with in PHX?

 

[blue collar]

Freedom-
You talk about "once decent paying jobs", well, who's the ones who made them not decent paying? The people who actually pay the paycheck. They're not illegal, they're the businessman who is looking for the cheap labor, and paying peanuts to the only people willing to take the job. If the employers would keep paying a livable wage, then you would have plenty of 'Americans' lining up to take the job. You're shifting the blame from the cause of the problem, to 'their' solution. Not placing it where it belongs, at the feet of the employer.

 

[blue collar]

But it is two sides... pro-business Republicans looking for cheap labor and Democrats looking for an increased voter base. Let us not forget it was Reagan who created the most significant immigration "reform" in the past 30 years and Obama who is trying to pass his own version. Either way, low-skilled Americans took a hit (or will take a hit) from additional competition for those few reminding decent paying jobs available.

I question holding businesses liable in such a Draconian level, because the law of unintended consequences would discourage employers from hiring anyone with brown skin or an accent, but I have little doubt large numbers of employers are ignoring the laws entirely.

Jester.

Increased voter base? Since when are they granting the right to work and vote? Is that fox's latest narrative, or just what arpaio wants you to think?

 

[roabilly]

well apparently one of them did as I find it most unlikely the printer added it.
most of the officers there have been in place for years, I am not going to say here of course but I could venture a good guess on the one who did it.
When I have heard him speak in the past I went away convinced that if Satan himself was on the ballot and had a (D) by his name he would tell you to vote for him.

I am not going to argue the whole politics thing here, I don't think it's the forum for one and I'd just soon stay clear of telling a man his politics or religion.
Beside we could argue all all day and you won't convince me nor I you
so let's just agree on everyone go Vote!


I will say I never vote a straight ticket and likely will not this time, I vote for the person

Rat…

I wish it were that simple… unfortunately, Politics and this thread will be passionately entwined for eternity...
One Political Party has openly openly declared WAR on Labor... especially Organized Labor! This no secret... it has been going on for decades, and the legislative history renders absolutely no doubt as to which corporate lobbyist are funding the politicians that have chosen this stance.

Since this is an Organized Labor forum, politics will have to addressed from time to time. I wish it were not true… but it is what it is! I’m like you… I see guys get fightin’ mad about their Party loyalties, and I would prefer not to discuss them. Unfortunately, we as Fleet Service Agents have no choice… we are members of an organized labor group that WILL be directly affected by our political choices... there is no way around it!

Refusing to acknowledge politics in our career choice would be like refusing to evacuate a burning building. In other words… you may, or may not survive… but it will defiantly leave a mark either way!