Our turn to strike, and we must prepare.

[Hopeful]

Don't believe it? Go read the threads over on the DL forum --- the majority of the discussion is about how to make the company a success, as opposed to the company has failed them. The majority of people in favor of DL unionizing aren't even DL employees... They're from AA, US, UA -- people who are clearly unhappy with how their union representation failed them, yet can't Bear the thought of a non-union workforce...

Wow, you get the whole DL employee morale issue down pat from some people posting on a forum? How many employees are at Delta? Did you poll all of them?

Just like this AA forum......Would you not say that those of us, myself included, are a minority with our negative opinion of this company because the few of us who post her do not represent the tens of thousands more at AA?

Remember, when there is no union, each employee is required to kiss the proverbial rear end of their superior for fear that they must do so due to no protection.

So tell me, how much better is each employee in each work group at DL better off than their counterparts at AA since they have no unions?

Let's do a pay and benefit comparison....

 

[Bob Owens]

Gee, Bob, you say that DL has "broken every promise they ever made to their workers"....

How are all those promises the TWU made to its members working out?

It's a dead horse, but apparently the employees at DL figured out that even with the bankruptcy process, the majority of employees have been treated as well (if not better) without a union playing the role of a paid middleman.

Funny how people doing the same job at similar airlines on essentially the same aircraft types have such diverging views on their personal employment situation. DL employees seem much more optimistic and positive... Why is that?

Don't believe it? Go read the threads over on the DL forum --- the majority of the discussion is about how to make the company a success, as opposed to the company has failed them. The majority of people in favor of DL unionizing aren't even DL employees... They're from AA, US, UA -- people who are clearly unhappy with how their union representation failed them, yet can't Bear the thought of a non-union workforce...

I've actually spoken to several Delta Employees, and most are not happy with management and want a union however they are afraid to say anything. Two weeks ago I saw several Delta Flight Attendants at the NLRB offices in DC where the NMB was holding hearings on a rule change for representation elections. How many Delta employees have you actually spoken to regarding unions?

 

[The Goose]

I've actually spoken to several Delta Employees, and most are not happy with management and want a union however they are afraid to say anything. Two weeks ago I saw several Delta Flight Attendants at the NLRB offices in DC where the NMB was holding hearings on a rule change for representation elections. How many Delta employees have you actually spoken to regarding unions?

Only the office employees, probably ...

 

[eolesen]

Whatever, boys. Continue to worship your false prophets at the Temple of Collective Bargaining.

Most of y'all piss and moan on a regular basis about your quality of life whenever *your* union is discussed.

Yet whenever representation at DL is discussed, unionism suddenly becomes employment Nirvana, and those who dare suggest anything other than that are dismissed as shills, lackeys, or ass-kissers.

The fact still remains that every union representation vote at DL has failed, including recent ones.

If that doesn't say clearly that most of the employees eligible for representation by a CBA see more negatives attached to unionism than benefits, I don't know what does.

 

[MCI transplant]

Whatever, boys. Continue to worship your false prophets at the Temple of Collective Bargaining.

Most of y'all piss and moan on a regular basis about your quality of life whenever *your* union is discussed.

Yet whenever representation at DL is discussed, unionism suddenly becomes employment Nirvana, and those who dare suggest anything other than that are dismissed as shills, lackeys, or ass-kissers.

The fact still remains that every union representation vote at DL has failed, including recent ones.

If that doesn't say clearly that most of the employees eligible for representation by a CBA see more negatives attached to unionism than benefits, I don't know what does.

<_< -----Olesen, aren't you ignoring the fact that those at Delta have what they have because of the Unions? If the whole Industry were "non-Union", do you really think that their benefits would be anywhere near what they are today? If you can get what you want without the aggravation of a Union, or Union dues, why not take advantage of it? They've been freeloading for quit some time. AMT's from Delta should be the last ones lecturing us on Unionism!!!

 

[PHL]

<_< -----Olesen, aren't you ignoring the fact that those at Delta have what they have because of the Unions? If the whole Industry were "non-Union", do you really think that their benefits would be anywhere near what they are today?

You can't sit here and say that with certainty. Could it also be possible that employers(not just airlines with skilled labor) need to retain talented employees, and to do that - they must offer benefits in line with - or better than - the competition?

 

[MCI transplant]

You can't sit here and say that with certainty. Could it also be possible that employers(not just airlines with skilled labor) need to retain talented employees, and to do that - they must offer benefits in line with - or better than - the competition.

<_< -----How, pray tell, do you think the "competition" got their "benefits" in the first place? :huh: Answer: Though "Union" negotiated Contracts!!!

 

[TWU informer]

<_< -----How, pray tell, do you think the "competition" got their "benefits" in the first place? :huh: Answer: Though "Union" negotiated Contracts!!!

25+ years of TWU Concessions doesn't make your argument valid.

 

[MCI transplant]

25+ years of TWU Concessions doesn't make your argument valid.

<_< ----- Sorry informer! I my have 40 years Industry experiance, not all of those were affiliated with the TWU!!! In those 40 years I've worked for three of the Industries major Airlines. ---- The point being that the "Industry" Unions have been a detemining factor in influancing Delta's compensation for years!!!---- No "arguement", fact!!!!

 

[eolesen]

MCI, without doubt, there's credit due to the unions with regard to basic rights like overtime, minimum wage, and safety, but most of that is now federal law. I've seen a lot more creative compensation and benefit plans at startup companies which go well beyond what AA offered, and offer employees a real an upside when the company makes money.

I have little doubt that without unions, you'd see companies paying a decent wage for the best and most qualified employees. Foreign airlines already do this. Not hamstrung by seniority based pay, carriers like Qatar, Cathay, Ethihad, Emirates, etc. seek out US captains guys at or close to retirement by offering a wage premium. It can no doubt be a pain being located in Asia or the Middle East, but there's no shortage of guys willing to do the job.

 

[SkydrolJunkie]

If the whole Industry were "non-Union", do you really think that their benefits would be anywhere near what they are today?

I'm curious. Are the ASE certified mechanics that fix my BMW unionized? How is their pay determined? I hear they make more then a unionized A&P mechanic?

 

[MCI transplant]

MCI, without doubt, there's credit due to the unions with regard to basic rights like overtime, minimum wage, and safety, but most of that is now federal law. I've seen a lot more creative compensation and benefit plans at startup companies which go well beyond what AA offered, and offer employees a real an upside when the company makes money.

I have little doubt that without unions, you'd see companies paying a decent wage for the best and most qualified employees. Foreign airlines already do this. Not hamstrung by seniority based pay, carriers like Qatar, Cathay, Ethihad, Emirates, etc. seek out US captains guys at or close to retirement by offering a wage premium. It can no doubt be a pain being located in Asia or the Middle East, but there's no shortage of guys willing to do the job.

<_< ---- Eric, I didn't think we were talking about Qatar, Cathay, Ethihad, Emirates, etc. I thought we were talking about the "American" Industry! Delta in particular!!! :huh:---- If you like to talk about Airlines in that part of the world, let's talk about Saudi Arabian Airlines. Did you know their first Aircraft, a DC3, a gift to the Saudi King from the U.S. Government,right after WWII, was a former TWA aircraft? Did you know that former TWA Union employees, helped setup their maintenance program, and worked along side them for years?

 

[Kev3188]

If that doesn't say clearly that most of the employees eligible for representation by a CBA see more negatives attached to unionism than benefits, I don't know what does.

It says hegemony is a powerful thing, and something that DL mgmt. has mastered.

Once upon a time, the phrase "DL family" meant something. Now it's an empty slogan used to get people to go against their own best interests.

 

[tech2101]

Once upon a time, the phrase "DL family" meant something.

It ended with the Western Airlines merger.

I saw it happen.

 

[Hopeful]

I have little doubt that without unions, you'd see companies paying a decent wage for the best and most qualified employees. Foreign airlines already do this. Not hamstrung by seniority based pay, carriers like Qatar, Cathay, Ethihad, Emirates, etc. seek out US captains guys at or close to retirement by offering a wage premium. It can no doubt be a pain being located in Asia or the Middle East, but there's no shortage of guys willing to do the job.

You really seem to have a problem with seniority based pay. What is wrong with someone getting compensated based on their length of service? Believe it or not, there are people who choose to stay at one company because they are dedicated and expect to be rewarded for their dedication. Unlike some CEOs and other execs.
And if it means getting the first pick at a job slot, vacation, days off, etc because of one's seniority,so be it.
You do not seem to have no problem with a CEO being given several times credit to his/her actual years of service. But in your eyes, that is "creative compensation."
Remember Carty?