Pbgc Vs Ual

[spacewaitress]

Imagine that...UAL not honoring its contracts.

SOSDFD

CHICAGO, Oct 14 (Reuters) - The government agency that insures corporate pensions has objected to United Airlines' (UALAQ.OB: Quote, Profile, Research) reorganization, asserting in court documents the carrier has changed a deal covering the termination of its pension plans.

 

[Busdrvr]

Imagine that...UAL not honoring its contracts.

SOSDFD

CHICAGO, Oct 14 (Reuters) - The government agency that insures corporate pensions has objected to United Airlines' (UALAQ.OB: Quote, Profile, Research) reorganization, asserting in court documents the carrier has changed a deal covering the termination of its pension plans.

Imagine that "spacewaitress" biting the had that feeds it..... 🙄

Be careful what you wish for, if UAL doesn't make it, no more cheap travel to Key West for you and your "partner".

 

[OutInLeftField]

First, let's recognize the obvious. The PBGC inches closer to insolvency each week. The turning over of pension obligations to the PBGC by US Airways and United made a worrisome situation into a major problem. Now, we're poised to see Delta and Northwest most likely turn over their under-funded pensions to the PBGC. If so, are American and Continental really that far behind?

Then there's the Delphi bankruptcy, which has dramatic implications, especially for GM. Most think GM is going to file imminently as well. My point is that ultimately us taxpayers are going to be on the hook for making up the PBGC shortfalls. That probably means higher taxes at some point. The PBGC is moving into desperation mode. But the pension shortfalls will be covered one way or the other. It's just unfortunate that the burden will fall on the shoulders of all of us.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

Be careful what you wish for, if UAL doesn't make it, no more cheap travel to Key West for you and your "partner".

And no more free travel for your three ex-wives, mistress and assorted rugrats, either, busdrvr. <_<

 

[aafsc]

First, let's recognize the obvious. The PBGC inches closer to insolvency each week. The turning over of pension obligations to the PBGC by US Airways and United made a worrisome situation into a major problem. Now, we're poised to see Delta and Northwest most likely turn over their under-funded pensions to the PBGC. If so, are American and Continental really that far behind?

Then there's the Delphi bankruptcy, which has dramatic implications, especially for GM. Most think GM is going to file imminently as well. My point is that ultimately us taxpayers are going to be on the hook for making up the PBGC shortfalls. That probably means higher taxes at some point. The PBGC is moving into desperation mode. But the pension shortfalls will be covered one way or the other. It's just unfortunate that the burden will fall on the shoulders of all of us.

I wouldn't count on a taxpayer bailout of the PBGC. Since a large majority of the people in this country don't have/never had a DB plan, there attitude will be..no bailout, screw them. Second, since this government does not spend money on domestic issues (like shoring up levees around a certain city for a few billion) but instead spends $200 billion and counting on a war in a certain oil rich country; it shows where their real interests lie. Additionally, this administration wants to eradicate DB plans altogether and they love to see the working class get raped. As far as they are concerned, it is blasphemy that a working person should be able to retire with pension annuities that they won't outlive. So those from EAL, Pan AM, TWA, UA, US, who are now receiving less than they origionally expected from the PBGC (depending on job, age, and time of service) will get nothing if the PBGC goes bust and there is no taxpayer bailout. If you add NW, DL, CO, AA, Delphi, and GM to the list of those who default, then I would think that would pretty much kill the PBGC. We will be a third world country in the not too distant future.

 

[kiowa]

pbgc and social security are both small potatoes compared to the money OUR governmment is spending for iraq-nam. we are now borrowing $10 Billion per month from the chinese to support this war for oil. borrowing from a communist government to support oil interests and we're worried about crumbs to the pbgc? i agree- we are on our way to being a 3d world county fast.

 

[Bear96]

Imagine that "spacewaitress" biting the had that feeds it..... 🙄

Be careful what you wish for, if UAL doesn't make it, no more cheap travel to Key West for you and your "partner".

Eh?

What'd I miss?

How is spacewaitress "biting the hand that feeds it"?

 

[Busdrvr]

Eh?

What'd I miss?

How is spacewaitress "biting the hand that feeds it"?

Imagine that...UAL not honoring its contracts.

SOSDFD

I challenge you to find a single PRO UAL post by the "waitress". So anti-UAL, yet he still shows up to collect a check.

 

[spacewaitress]

I trade my labor for a paycheck. That's the extent of the relationship. I don't buy into the tribe mentality. period. Don't talk to me about loyalty and feeling fuzzy with this company. That's not what this company is about and that's not what I'm about in regards to this company.It's a business relationship only. And it's working for me until it doesn't.

United doesn't want us to like this company anyway. And why should we. As I said...I trade my labor for a paycheck. That's it. This company doesn't deserve more from me. I don't expect anything more from them.

As far as the honoring contract remark. It's been my experience for the past 20 years that UAL doesn't value contracts more than the cost of the paper and ink. So, the comment was pretty right on. Read into it what you will.

Busdriver, your such a patsy.

Eh?

What'd I miss?

How is spacewaitress "biting the hand that feeds it"?

I've never bitten UALs hand. I've always done a good job for them.

I believe busdriver thinks I should get with the program, so to speak. Drink the koolaid or whatever. I leave that to him. Doesn't work for me.

 

[Segue]

United doesn't want us to like this company anyway. And why should we. As I said...I trade my labor for a paycheck. That's it. This company doesn't deserve more from me. I don't expect anything more from them.

That pretty much characterizes service on United. A bunch of people that who have no passion for their jobs and too afraid to find one that does.....just plug on and take your frustrations out on the poor passenger willing to pay money to fly.....any wonder United is where it is at now?

 

[Deleted by Moderator]

Angry Seque??? Last I checked, United was winning awards for GREAT customer service. Where have you been?

 

[spacewaitress]

That pretty much characterizes service on United. A bunch of people that who have no passion for their jobs and too afraid to find one that does.....just plug on and take your frustrations out on the poor passenger willing to pay money to fly.....any wonder United is where it is at now?

I don't recall anyone saying anything about taking anything out on passengers. Too bad that's been your experience. I don't see it. What I see are professionals who do their job and do it well.

It's about doing a job...it's about the people who use United's services. That has nothing to do with United.

 

[SmoothRide]

I wouldn't count on a taxpayer bailout of the PBGC. Since a large majority of the people in this country don't have/never had a DB plan, there attitude will be..no bailout, screw them. Second, since this government does not spend money on domestic issues (like shoring up levees around a certain city for a few billion) but instead spends $200 billion and counting on a war in a certain oil rich country; it shows where their real interests lie. Additionally, this administration wants to eradicate DB plans altogether and they love to see the working class get raped. As far as they are concerned, it is blasphemy that a working person should be able to retire with pension annuities that they won't outlive. So those from EAL, Pan AM, TWA, UA, US, who are now receiving less than they origionally expected from the PBGC (depending on job, age, and time of service) will get nothing if the PBGC goes bust and there is no taxpayer bailout. If you add NW, DL, CO, AA, Delphi, and GM to the list of those who default, then I would think that would pretty much kill the PBGC. We will be a third world country in the not too distant future.

For pilots out there hoping that Congress will move on SB 861 and HR 2926 (Pilot's Equitable Treatment Act) I wouldn't hold your breathe. As a refresher, this would require the PBGC to recalculate the benefits schedule by acknowledging that pilots are still required by law to retire @ 60 and not interprete as retiring "early" (approx. 30% penalty!). I visited my Senators and Representative in DC last week during recess and was told by one staffer that even if it might seem "unfair", Congress is in no mood to add any more burden to the PBGC. Their plate is also pretty full with other matters. Also, I got the impression that United and USAir employees including pilots (SB 65, HR 65 [Age 60] and SB 861, HR 2926) have been 'forgotten' because the other pension funding legislation for NWA, DAL, et al is perceived as benefiting more people. They need to be reminded that there is legislation out there that can still help many thousands of OUR employees!

Incidently, with the BK of Delta, Northwest, Mesaba occurring AFTER ALPA's straw poll to its members on the Age 60 issue last Spring, I think it is fair to say that those poll results are, or likely will be, grossly inaccurate as every pilot affected at these newly BK airlines are forced to confront the reality of future pay cuts (less disposable income to fund 401ks) and likely dissolution/reduction of their DB plans. It is going to take some time for disbelief and anger to be replaced by some level of resignation. It would seem prudent for ALPA to repoll their members. Something to think about.

Whatever the issue, I encourage every employee at United to become a political activist and contact your elected representative. I came away from my visit to DC with the impression that they DO listen. While a email/fax is good, a personal visit (letter in hand...due to anthrax-induced fears of US Mail) is better. It is important to actually look them in the eyes so they can make a valid connection to the human story behind the issue(s).

 

[JungleClone]

Kiowa,

You're absolutely correct. Just wait until the Chinese divest their U.S. bond holdings and start a run on the U.S. dollar. Then the fun really begins.

 

[SmoothRide]

Kiowa,

You're absolutely correct. Just wait until the Chinese divest their U.S. bond holdings and start a run on the U.S. dollar. Then the fun really begins.

Forgot to mention...when I was sitting with the Senator's Staff Director, this very issue was discussed briefly and Congress IS very concerned about it - not only to our economy but also in the leverage it allows the Chinese in our foreign policy. What saves us (in the near term) is that it is a symbiotic relationship...until their products find a marketplace that 'reasonably' competes with the US consumer's DEMAND (key!). Then we may well be in deep ####.