Pilot Recall?
- Thread starter Legacy
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Hopeful
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Pilots are one group that are certain to be recalled since mandatory retirement age is 60 years old.
I realize pilots are against having to retire at 60, but think about this. When pilots negotiate a contract, they can be more flexible since it is easy for them and the company to detemine the number of pilots retiring over the contract. It is usually a captain who retires which creates pilot advancement to the left seat and larger aircraft.
So even though the pilots have been subject to concessions, I think the layoff segment could be considered temporary. Of course as long as the company doesn't shrink in size.
I realize pilots are against having to retire at 60, but think about this. When pilots negotiate a contract, they can be more flexible since it is easy for them and the company to detemine the number of pilots retiring over the contract. It is usually a captain who retires which creates pilot advancement to the left seat and larger aircraft.
So even though the pilots have been subject to concessions, I think the layoff segment could be considered temporary. Of course as long as the company doesn't shrink in size.
The only pilots I know of that want to fly past 60 have screwed their lives up so badly, they need the money, or they have nothing else in their life but the drive to the airport to be around people for a couple of days.Hopeful said:
Any recalls will be welcome. I hope its true.
Ah, I used the proper size brush. I know a few UAL and Usairways pilots. The ones I know want still out at 60. Of the AA pilots that want a change the reason(s) stands.Boomer said:
But, I'm sure some at U and UAL will want a few more years of income for the reason you've given.
P.S. Usairways now have a 10.5% "B" plan. UAL's is at 9%. Its called a D.C. plan though.... (same thing)
Calls are going out today to pilots on the "announced" furlough list (ones that have yet to be furloughed). The calls are being made by chief pilots informing those on the "edge" that they WILL NOT be furloughed. In fact, recalls will be sooner rather than later.
Legacy said:
Well maybe they will be recalling mechanics too. If they can get them to come back. I know of at least 10 guys who where no where near being laid off that have quit at my station in the last year. A lot more retired.
Are many pilots who have not been laid off simply quitting too? How about early retirements?
How much you want to bet that in 5 years the industry is complaining that there is a shortage of pilots and mechanics?
AA717driver
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There are some like me who will need to work beyond 60 to make up for being laid off in their mid-40's. I may well take the retirement when it comes available in the next 3 years, take my passes and what I have in the A/B plan (if it exists) and continue my corporate career.
There are quite a few newhires who got laid off who are not 25 years old and will return to have a 'fantastic career at AA'. Some are refugees from other airlines and some are retired military who don't have a huge retirement to live on at age 60.
I do agree that pilots will be called back eventually. Many of the support jobs can be permanently outsourced. Some of the laid off UAL mechanics in IND are now taking jobs at their old mx base for AAR at less than half the hourly rate they worked for at UAL and probably no or severly reduced benefits.
We are seeing yet another post-deregulation sea change for the aviation industry. Just as the changes in the competition and marketplace mortally wounded PanAm, Eastern, old Continental and the old TWA (not the LCC that AA bought) the new market is forcing the legacies to adapt or perish. AA, Delta and UAL adapted to survive in the '80's. They will have to adapt quickly to avoid the fate of the other carriers I mentioned above.
There are no guarantees and nothing stays the same.TC
There are quite a few newhires who got laid off who are not 25 years old and will return to have a 'fantastic career at AA'. Some are refugees from other airlines and some are retired military who don't have a huge retirement to live on at age 60.
I do agree that pilots will be called back eventually. Many of the support jobs can be permanently outsourced. Some of the laid off UAL mechanics in IND are now taking jobs at their old mx base for AAR at less than half the hourly rate they worked for at UAL and probably no or severly reduced benefits.
We are seeing yet another post-deregulation sea change for the aviation industry. Just as the changes in the competition and marketplace mortally wounded PanAm, Eastern, old Continental and the old TWA (not the LCC that AA bought) the new market is forcing the legacies to adapt or perish. AA, Delta and UAL adapted to survive in the '80's. They will have to adapt quickly to avoid the fate of the other carriers I mentioned above.
There are no guarantees and nothing stays the same.TC
AA717driver said:
Less than half? Are you saying that they are taking jobs at AAR for less than $15/hr?
If they are then they are schmucks.
By the way what makes you think that there isnt any job, including yours, that cant be outsourced? Didnt Brittish outsource pilots jobs?
Ken MacTiernan
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AA717driver said:
717, which support jobs do you think can be permanently outsourced? I am curious. And of these outsourced jobs what do you think the quality might be. Both short and long term?
There are 2890 pilots on furlough.
For the sake of argument 2/3 go back to AA or 1925.
Lets try to remember that AA has record retirements coming up so the need for 200 pilots will exist in the next 10 years. The retirements alone will keep the school house buzzing.
At peak hiring during the last wave the were training approx 40 pilots per month. Which equates to 4 years. they have decied that they will not recall this summer so my best guess is that they will start recalling next spring 2006 +4 years=2010
Now does anyone here think that retirement age will go from 60 to 65 prior to 2010? I do, so you can add 5 years to that number
My guess is 2015 before everyone is recalled then if some use the 3 year extension 2018 before I need to make a decision.
For the sake of argument 2/3 go back to AA or 1925.
Lets try to remember that AA has record retirements coming up so the need for 200 pilots will exist in the next 10 years. The retirements alone will keep the school house buzzing.
At peak hiring during the last wave the were training approx 40 pilots per month. Which equates to 4 years. they have decied that they will not recall this summer so my best guess is that they will start recalling next spring 2006 +4 years=2010
Now does anyone here think that retirement age will go from 60 to 65 prior to 2010? I do, so you can add 5 years to that number
My guess is 2015 before everyone is recalled then if some use the 3 year extension 2018 before I need to make a decision.
PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH
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Former ModerAAtor said:
I'm afraid there won't be any one person piloted airliners,because the airlines :down: (ATA)are going to go straight for the jugular. The airlines :down: (ATA) want to go to completely pilotless robotic airliners. Think it will never happen,think again! The fastest growing sector of aviation right now is UAV's and this sector is only going to get bigger,and bigger! If you haven't noticed,the government and the press have been telling the public how great UAV's are and how tough,reliable they have been during the wars in Afganistan and Iraq. They are softening the public up for the eventual transfer of UAV technologies to the airline industry.
The biggest thorn in the side of the ATA :down: members is the pilots. They are the last piece of the puzzle of Walmarting the airline industry. The ATA :down: has found a way to outsource the pilot's, and they will do it!
