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Pilot Recall?

PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH said:
I'm afraid there won't be any one person piloted airliners,because the airlines :down: (ATA)are going to go straight for the jugular. The airlines :down: (ATA) want to go to completely pilotless robotic airliners. Think it will never happen,think again! The fastest growing sector of aviation right now is UAV's and this sector is only going to get bigger,and bigger! If you haven't noticed,the government and the press have been telling the public how great UAV's are and how tough,reliable they have been during the wars in Afganistan and Iraq. They are softening the public up for the eventual transfer of UAV technologies to the airline industry.

The biggest thorn in the side of the ATA :down: members is the pilots. They are the last piece of the puzzle of Walmarting the airline industry. The ATA :down: has found a way to outsource the pilot's, and they will do it!
[post="272095"][/post]​

Alright, slow down now. This is a prime example of how something written on the internet can get accepted as factual by people who don't know anything about it except inaccurate and incomplete media sound-byte BS.

First of all, UAVs are "unmanned" aerial vehicles. In other words, there's no people, pilot or passengers in them. They are what we used to call drones. Been around for a really long time. Nothing new. Without a human in the machine, it can be made smaller, lighter, and have great tactical advantage in certain circumstances. However, THERE IS a pilot . . . he's just in a van somewhere on the ground and not in the aircraft itself. The pilot takes off and lands remotely and manipulates the autopilot in flight . . . just like a pilot in the aircraft does.

Now to your rather tortured conclusion that pilotless airliners are just around the corner. Well, there's three reasons it's not.

1. I doubt that JQ Public will want to get on an airplane that doesn't have a pilot. And the first crash of one without a pilot, the speculation will be that if there was a pilot on board, it could have been saved. So, the manufacturers design an aircraft and leave out the human interface (cockpit) and it save a huge amount of weight and money, have a crash, and now nobody will fly on those airplanes. If I were an airline executive buying the new generation of aircraft, that thought alone would cause the blood to rush from my head. Designing an aircraft with human controls, then not putting a pilot in there, and having a crash, would be just as bad. Doesn't matter . . . your fault, my fault, nobody's fault . . . the end result would be the same.

2. Technologically it not practical and won't be for a very very long time, despite what the eternally optimistic futurists would like you to believe. Remember when in 1930 they told everyone by the turn of the century, there'd be flying cars? There are just to many variables that occur during flight. The air traffic control systems in the US and Europe aren't even in the same universe with being able to handle that now or the forseeable future. As far as variables, there is weather avoidance that is not "black-and-white" computer understandable and quantifiable. A lot goes with experience and "judgement" . . . something computers don't have, nor will for who knows how long. Further, with judgement taken out of the equation, the parameters for acceptable performance would have to be fairly strict, resulting in huge numbers of landing aborts, weather turn-arounds, aircraft spacing aborts, etc. While autoland systems are good, they have strict wind limits and require special runways. Air Traffic Control couldn't possibly handle the volume of traffic now handled without the joint judgement and interaction between pilot and controller. A fully automated system would bog down very quickly.

3. Cost. If you think the cost of employing a couple of pilots is bad, try ponying up for the R&D for the aircraft and air traffic control system that it would take to even operate an rudimentary and low-density system. And then the cost of maintaining that system. And what about flying into other countries whose airports aren't up to standard.?

Could it happen someday. Well yea, anything is possible. But not in our lifetimes, and not in our childrens lifetimes . . . . . and my money is on just about never.

BTW, the trains at DFW are automated, but why aren't passenger and freight trains automated and unmanned by engineers??? It'd be a heck of a lot easier to fully automate that.
 
you can't have any one man, piloted aircraft. All current and planned airliners are type certificated for 2 pilots. No airline in the world is going to go through the process of recertifying their aircraft for one pilot.
 
We are not likely to see pilotless passenger airplanes anytime soon. I for one would not get on one. I would guess that Princess would concede to that too. More than likely the post was made to knock down some prima donna who did what many pilots so often do-minimalized the importance of others.

Lets face it, pilots as a group dont have a good track record as far being union people. They have a reputation for crossing picket lines. Many often speak as if they are the only employees the airlines need and sometimes spout off about how everyone else could be outsourced but them, Brittish proved that to be false.

Luckily there are a lot of pilots who are not like that but unfortunately there are enough of them to brand the profession.

Pilots are not unique either. I often hear similar things from mechanics. Despite the fact that I'm promoting us changing from the TWU to AMFA that does not mean that I feel that other workers do not deserve a livable wage, thats why I talk to the Fleet guys whenever I get a chance about trying to organize an industrywide union for them. If a plane pulled up to the gate and no one was there to unload it or clean it then the operation would be impacted the same as if there was no one there to fly it or fix it.
 
Winglet said:
why aren't passenger and freight trains automated and unmanned by engineers??? It'd be a heck of a lot easier to fully automate that.
[post="272229"][/post]​

It's already happening -- most of the larger freight yards in the US have remote-controlled switcher locomotives in operation. As the reliability and safety record for these devices improves, it's entirely possible to see automated freight movements, especially in areas where grade separation has been done.

And there are at least eight subway systems worldwide which are driverless:

https://www.apta.com/services/intnatl/intfocus/autometro.cfm
 
Former ModerAAtor said:
It's already happening -- most of the larger freight yards in the US have remote-controlled switcher locomotives in operation. As the reliability and safety record for these devices improves, it's entirely possible to see automated freight movements, especially in areas where grade separation has been done.

And there are at least eight subway systems worldwide which are driverless:

https://www.apta.com/services/intnatl/intfocus/autometro.cfm
[post="272684"][/post]​


Yea but in an emergency a passenger can stop those trains, you cant pull over onto a cloud.
 
On age 60, this came today.

INDUSTRY NEWS—AGE 60 RULE: At its May 2005 Executive Board Meeting that convened this morning, the Air Line Pilots Association reported on the results of its Age 60 Rule education campaign and poll. In response to a telephone survey asking the question “Do you favor changing the FAA Age 60 Rule,â€￾ 39 percent said yes to a change, while 54 percent answered no to changing the rule. Traditional telephone polling was conducted to ensure an accurate demographic representation of the membership.



Also, nearly 38 percent of all eligible ALPA members participated in a Web-based survey, with 44 percent saying yes to a change and 55 percent saying no. The polling was conducted in conjunction with the Wilson Center for Public Research, which helped to develop the survey questions and analyze the results. Margin of error for the telephone and Web-based survey combined is less than one percent.
 
AAviator said:
On age 60, this came today.

INDUSTRY NEWS—AGE 60 RULE: At its May 2005 Executive Board Meeting that convened this morning, the Air Line Pilots Association reported on the results of its Age 60 Rule education campaign and poll. In response to a telephone survey asking the question “Do you favor changing the FAA Age 60 Rule,â€￾ 39 percent said yes to a change, while 54 percent answered no to changing the rule. Traditional telephone polling was conducted to ensure an accurate demographic representation of the membership.



Also, nearly 38 percent of all eligible ALPA members participated in a Web-based survey, with 44 percent saying yes to a change and 55 percent saying no. The polling was conducted in conjunction with the Wilson Center for Public Research, which helped to develop the survey questions and analyze the results. Margin of error for the telephone and Web-based survey combined is less than one percent.
[post="272776"][/post]​

Once again the pilots do the smart thing. The age 60 rule benifits pilots and helps to keep their pay higher by limiting the pool of workers. If we had that rule in maintenance we would probably see 15% or more of the workforce dissapear. If that rule had been in effect mechanics would have fought harder for better pay years ago.
 
Former ModerAAtor said:
It's already happening -- most of the larger freight yards in the US have remote-controlled switcher locomotives in operation. As the reliability and safety record for these devices improves, it's entirely possible to see automated freight movements, especially in areas where grade separation has been done.

And there are at least eight subway systems worldwide which are driverless:

https://www.apta.com/services/intnatl/intfocus/autometro.cfm
[post="272684"][/post]​

I think the operative word is "remote controlled." A remote engineer sitting with a full-view of a switching yard would be a safer operation, it would seem to this rail-layman . . . . but there is still the judgement and skill of a human in control. Also the accss to the yard is probaby strickly controlled, unlike an ordinary rail line with road crossings, unknown weather, and other hazards.
 

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