Pilot seniority arbitration award is out

[BluePacific]

Art, with this one sided award I have no hope of improving things. Almost 55, 22 years at U and no where to go.
Never get a captain seat, lost on what's left of my retirement. I'm jr now to a guy who was hired in 2000 and who was born when I was 21.
I value our customers but I am worthless in the eyes of this company and I'm not the only one.

Some dogs at the end of chain learn to live with it, others become mean.

While I do not think this decision is fair at all, I am wondering what recourse you have in the East? And what does the company really care?

Now to change the ffocus a little, what effect will this have on operations? I am trying to stay out of union/labor/issues, but I would like to know how this will affect the customer?

From what little I have read, this stinks for you guys and gals in the East, and I am sorry--but I have no dog in this fight, except to look out for my members--your colleagues and customers.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

My best to you all....

 

[tahitigirl]

Is this set in stone? What kind of recourse do you guys have?

 

[Phoenix]

While I do not think this decision is fair at all, I am wondering what recourse you have in the East? And what does the company really care?

Now to change the ffocus a little, what effect will this have on operations? I am trying to stay out of union/labor/issues, but I would like to know how this will affect the customer?

From what little I have read, this stinks for you guys and gals in the East, and I am sorry--but I have no dog in this fight, except to look out for my members--your colleagues and customers.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

My best to you all....

Art, your kind words are appreciated. Honestly, I can't imagine why you are still here. You should have cut your losses and left already.

The results of this seniority integration list only become effective if 3100+ pilots at USAir adopt a joint contract (HP pilots only have 1800 votes).

3100 pilots are simply not gonna hand over a 20-30% improvement of seniority to 1800 pilots without a HUGE pay increase.

If this is not the proverbial two ton "straw that breaks the camels back" and resurrects the Eastern Mechanics mentality of negotiating tactics, then I don't know what ever could.

 

[ab320driver]

What kind of recourse do you guys have?

Vote NO on any integration contracts. If AWA wants to vote on their own contracts, fine. There will be two distinct pilot groups for years to come...

 

[exB717Flyer]

While I do not think this decision is fair at all, I am wondering what recourse you have in the East?

As much recouse as anyone has when they agree to binding arbitration and don't like the results. The courts will only touch it if there's gross errors involved.

And what does the company really care?

It doesn't care.

Now to change the ffocus a little, what effect will this have on operations?

Short term: the usual grumbling. Long term: nothing. Once the dust settles people will realize that nobody's seat or bidding position will change significantly. With no bump or flush the only way one side would experience a significant advantage is during massive furloughs. Even though AA stapled 2/3 of the TWA guys had furloughs not occured the TWA guys would've been reasonably happy.

From what little I have read, this stinks for you guys and gals in the East,...

It's not as bad as it sounds. Emotions are just running high right now.

 

[Lunvnsat]

Is this set in stone? What kind of recourse do you guys have?

I'll tell you what recourse we have. The First Officers on the combined seniority list now have a compelling reason to vote no on any contractual provision that is deemed a concession. 8:30 rest, standup overnights, etc. let alone pay, signing, retirement.

Now that we will be in the right seat indefinately, its time to stand as one (First Officer Voting Block) and demand a contract that far exceeds west rates and east rules.

 

[TravelDude]

Start new to knowing your current contracts or potential combined new contract.

Obviously seniority affects bidding for seat and equipment and domicile/base and schedule.

But how does the seniority list affect pay. Are you all (east & west) paid based on DOH seniority, Seniorit in position (left & right seat), seniority in equipment, etc. I am clueless how your all hourly rate is determined.

 

[luvthe9]

Update for May 4, 2007







Dear Fellow Pilots,



I want to assure each and every one of you - right down to the very last pilot - on the US Airways seniority list how I recognize we now have a crisis of unimaginable, unmanageable proportions on our hands. Within hours I will be calling for a meeting of our MEC together with the other Captain representatives of the MEC in order to initiate an immediate plan of action.



I urge ALL of my fellow captains on this property to please listen very carefully to your first officers during this time of crisis for your fellow crewmembers.



To those of you in shock or dealing with serious emotional issues, i.e. anger, depression, etc., I will be putting out a special Fastread on Employee Assistance help available to you in your time of need. These are exactly the types of issues for EAP to help you with.



Fellow Captains, now more than ever before, it is time for you to share the burden of leadership on this property. Sit up, listen and pay close attention, educate yourself, get involved and empathize! Make the time to try to imagine yourself in the shoes of your First Officers. Understand that not one of us has paid a price so dear in order that this new entity, US Airways, be created, than the pilot to your right and his fellow furloughee. They are in desperate need of our support NOW.





Captain-US Airways, Council 41 Chair.

 

[TBONEJ4J]

Vote NO on any integration contracts. If AWA wants to vote on their own contracts, fine. There will be two distinct pilot groups for years to come...

Keep them separate. No integration.

Growth and attrition is for East Metal.

 

[JetMonkey]

Everybody listen up! We are NOT jumping up and down over here. If you ask just about any west pilot, we did not want this merger to begin with. In summary, let's review:

East got:
-top 500 stay
-widebodys fenced off
-no bump/no flush
-list were merged according to the ALPA policy
-your relative seniority pretty much doesn't change
-furloughs were placed pretty much were all the other mergers placed them.

You guys also get longevity pay, non-rev travel based on DOH, everyone getting a new contract with better pay and work rules BEFORE LOA 93 expires in 09 which would most certanly would've gone longer. And not to mention the undisputed FACT, the alternative was liquidation. I'd say not bad overall. You guys can spin this any which way you like but a spade is still a spade. On 5/05 Mr. Colello was unemployed by mainline, Mr. Odell was not. And I'll argue for the rest of my career if someone accuses me of having a windfall because someone who didn't have a job here when Parker had a crazy brainstorm to merge us and wasen't allowed to be put ahead of me and contribute to my career stagnation.

It is unfortunate that someone was furloughed after 16 years. But that's not my fault and I should not have to pay for it with my career.

Flame on!

 

[Viper16]

Short term: the usual grumbling. Long term: nothing. Once the dust settles people will realize that nobody's seat or bidding position will change significantly. With no bump or flush the only way one side would experience a significant advantage is during massive furloughs. Even though AA stapled 2/3 of the TWA guys had furloughs not occured the TWA guys would've been reasonably happy.It's not as bad as it sounds. Emotions are just running high right now.

That is not true - with over 200 retirements a year on the east and no bidding restrictions to speak of, the west pilots will be able to advance into these vacancies at the expense of east pilots.

You say it's not as bad as it sounds. I received zero credit for my 18+ years at this company. How can anyone say it's not a windfall for a group when a guy with one month of longevity at the time of the merger is placed ahead of a guy with 18 yrs.

I believe it's pretty telling that there are not any west pilots on here complaining about the award. If the arbitrator did his job there would be 6000+ upset pilots - the fact that the only ones mad are the east pilots tells you that this was a lopsided award.

If the west pilots were concerned about the east voting for a contract they can forget that - I think the east guys will vote down any contract and continue to work under their present contract just to keep this unfair list from being implemented.

 

[Phoenix]

Everybody listen up! We are NOT jumping up and down over here. ...

Didn't your parents teach you it is uncouth to wave your arms and blow your horn as you drive by a funeral? :angry:

 

[A320 Driver]

Everybody listen up! We are NOT jumping up and down over here. If you ask just about any west pilot, we did not want this merger to begin with. In summary, let's review:

East got:
-top 500 stay
-widebodys fenced off
-no bump/no flush
-list were merged according to the ALPA policy
-your relative seniority pretty much doesn't change
-furloughs were placed pretty much were all the other mergers placed them.

Flame on!

-top 500 stay
Where exactly would they be going?

-widebodys fenced off
Not really. I hold A330 seniority on the EAST list and 89 of your Captains who had absolutly NO career expectations to fly one can bid for it. The fence didn't cover a large number of the present widebody Captains.

-list were merged according to the ALPA policy
ALPA says no windfalls at the expense of the other. Better look again.

-your relative seniority pretty much doesn't change
On the contrary, many of the East F/Os lost SIGNIFICANT position on the merged list.

This was a windfall for West.

A320 Driver B)

 

[etops1]

this is pure bullshit!!!. our east guys got royally screwed. i have been known to defend this company on alot of things . but each day this place keeps going down the s#itter.

 

[Viper16]

Everybody listen up! We are NOT jumping up and down over here. If you ask just about any west pilot, we did not want this merger to begin with. In summary, let's review:

East got:
-top 500 stay
-widebodys fenced off
-no bump/no flush
-list were merged according to the ALPA policy
-your relative seniority pretty much doesn't change
-furloughs were placed pretty much were all the other mergers placed them.

You guys also get longevity pay, non-rev travel based on DOH, everyone getting a new contract with better pay and work rules BEFORE LOA 93 expires in 09 which would most certanly would've gone longer. And not to mention the undisputed FACT, the alternative was liquidation. I'd say not bad overall. You guys can spin this any which way you like but a spade is still a spade. On 5/05 Mr. Colello was unemployed by mainline, Mr. Odell was not. And I'll argue for the rest of my career if someone accuses me of having a windfall because someone who didn't have a job here when Parker had a crazy brainstorm to merge us and wasen't allowed to be put ahead of me and contribute to my career stagnation.

It is unfortunate that someone was furloughed after 16 years. But that's not my fault and I should not have to pay for it with my career.

Flame on!

Widebody fence lasts for only a short time

No bump/no flush - yes but the west gets to capture the increased age attrition on the east that you wouldn't have had on the west. There are no bidding restrictions on that

Oh WOW - DOH for non rev is a great trade off for losing 18 yrs of seniority

The alternative may have been liquidation but your alternative would have been bankruptcy and fleet reduction and furloughs - not a mature international division and lucrative east coast route structure

On 5/05 Mr Colello was opearating an aircraft under USAirways certificate. He was a member of USAirways ALPA and paying dues to such. He was paid by USAirways. He was on the USAirways seniority list. He was a part of USAirways as testified by Mr Jerrold Glass, USAirways VP of Labor Relatuions at an arbitration hearing over the sale of MDA to REP. What makes you think he was unemployed? He had contributed 17 years to USAirways when Mr Odell was hired.