Pilots, Send in those cards

[nostradamus]

And you stick your nose in everywhere and not even a mainline pilot

wrong

 

[b737fo]

I believe the US Airways pilots are tired of the AWA MEC and its pilots not listening to the ALPA EC, Rice Committee, and Doug Parker who all desire a compromise to the Nicolau Award dispute. In the not-to-distant future ALPA may no longer be a player.

Once USAPA takes control over the combined pilot group there will be a new seniority integration negotiation. USAPA cannot deprive, and will not deprive, the West their right to negotiate a new seniority integration agreement and they will allow the process to carry out. USAPA and their Counsel clearly understands they cannot “lock outâ€￾ the minority group (the AWA pilots) because this would create a DFR lawsuit, which could be won by the plaintiff. But, the majority group can “vote outâ€￾ the minority group and implement a seniority integration, which can be effectively imposed. Basically USAPA could close the question, call the vote, call for the “I’sâ€￾ who would decide the matter, the case would be closed, and seniority imposition would occur.

Interesting statement considering that the AAA MEC is defying the ALPA EC and Rice Committee by pulling their side of the JNC which does not make them available to "develop consensual solutions" as directed by the resolution that National drafted. I guess it is hard to take the high road concerning whether or not AWA ALPA is actively participating with the Rice Committee when your own negotiators are not there.

So you would expect that the AWA pilots would pay 1.95% of their check if your scenario were to come to pass as you envision? A seniority list imposition after a new union seizes control of the right to represent the West against their will would make collecting dues from almost half of USAPA's active membership very hard to get.

BTW sweet thread hijack nostradamus....

 

[BottomFeeder]

A seniority list imposition after a new union seizes control of the right to represent the West against their will would make collecting dues from almost half of USAPA's active membership very hard to get.

BTW sweet thread hijack nostradamus....

Correct me if I am wrong but you can be a member or not be a member. But you will still pay a percentage of your paycheck to the union.

If you do not pay then the company fires you.

You do not get to vote on future items.

You will have no legal represenation by the union.

 

[700UW]

Wrong,

Any union member in a closed shop can be a Dues Objector or an Agency Fee Payer.

By doing that, you reduce a portion of your dues as you only pay for what is germane to the CBA.

You lose your right to attend meetings, vote on your officers, your cba and a strike.

By law the union STILL MUST represent them in any matter under the CBA, if a union fails to represent the member they would be hit and found liable for a DFR Claim/Charge.

Go read Beck vs CWA a Federal Supreme Court Decision.

 

[dariencc]

When a poster posts misinformation numerous times and keeps posting it when he/she is shown to be wrong, I will comment anytime I like and present the facts and the correct information.

Great! Please refer to thread entitled "Word From the Top" and correct your blatant misinformation concerning APA and the Judge Kendell imposed fine.

No one was arrested for sabotaging anything, and when we were on strike, we did not have access to the SIDA areas, so if no mechanic and related were at work, how did these events occur?

Actually, there was tremendous vandalism of equipment in the days leading up to the strike. I'm talking about a lot of vandalism. One of the most creative was when several crews arrived for the morning launch and found the cockpit seats had been urinated on. Instant cancellations.

Standing by for your denials. :down:

And you stick your nose in everywhere and not even a mainline pilot, so take your own advice.

Could you please enlighten us as to whether it is ok for a retired lavatory dump technician to stick his nose in everywhere. No pun intended, I assure you.

 

[700UW]

Last time I checked anyone is free to post on here.

I left as a stock clerk, not utility.

And I have been schooled in labor/union education and have held numerous positions in the IAM and other unions.

And you keep trying to make the topic about me, why is that?

Obsessed?

Can't counter the fact APA gave billions in concessions in leiu of a $45 million fine?

Keep ignoring the facts, the facts won't change.

 

[b737fo]

Correct me if I am wrong but you can be a member or not be a member. But you will still pay a percentage of your paycheck to the union.

If you do not pay then the company fires you.

You do not get to vote on future items.

You will have no legal represenation by the union.

Well I am not sure that a new CBA that USAPA negotiates that includes a section on closed shop provisions would past muster with the West if that union is forced on them and then a seniority list is imposed. Couple that with the usual vote no crowd and a new contract seems like it could face an uphill battle. That doesn't seem like a scenario that would lead to anything else than the continued fighting that we have seen since May.

It is pretty obvious to the Westies that this USAPA movement is not really setup to represent all of the pilots at US Airways. Traditionally when ALPA has made an effort to become the representational entity of a pilot group it has used numerous resources to reach out and make contact with pilots to tell them what they offer and why cards should be signed and sent to the NMB. So far not a word or even a card to sign from an entity that wants me to pay them to represent my "interests".

 

[dariencc]

I left as a stock clerk, not utility.

What you left as does not make you any less of a retired lavatory dump technician. If USA320Pilot lost his medical, stayed on as a Crew Scheduler, and subsequently retired, he would still be a retired Captain. So would I.

Can't counter the fact APA gave billions in concessions in leiu of a $45 million fine?

Wow, the American pilots will be really mad when they find out they gave up billions "in leiu" of a 45 million dollar fine. As written, your sentence says that if they had paid the fine, they would not have had to give up the billions. Did you really mean that, or do you just not know how to write?

By the way, is that the same $45 million you kept saying they paid, before you started saying they paid $23 million, before you admitted they paid chump change?

Still no admission that the slowdown and fine were over the Reno Air integration issue, and not over the concessionary discussions? No problem, I'll give you a pass on that.

Keep ignoring the facts, the facts won't change.

Since when did random Google surfing become "the facts?"

 

[iheartairbus]

If we want to keep this company going, then we better figure out something else because if EITHER SIDE wins, the whole company is going to suffer.

A320 Driver

THIS IS WHAT INFURATES ME..... SELFISH F***** PILOTS, WHO GIVES A RATS A$$ ABOUT THEY OTHER 30,000 EMPLOYEES, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE PILOTS.... COMMENTS AND MENATLITIES LIKE THIS ARE UNREALISITIC. ALL OF THEY OTHER EMPLOYEES EVEN THE F/A'S ARE SICK AND TIRED OF THE PILOTS CRAP!!!

 

[Mike]

Correct me if I am wrong but you can be a member or not be a member. But you will still pay a percentage of your paycheck to the union.

If you do not pay then the company fires you.

You do not get to vote on future items.

You will have no legal represenation by the union.

In over 20 years of proffesional flying with four seperate airlines, I have yet to see a Pilot fired for not paying union dues. Threating letters...yes. But never termination

 

[BottomFeeder]

Wrong,

Any union member in a closed shop can be a Dues Objector or an Agency Fee Payer.

By doing that, you reduce a portion of your dues as you only pay for what is germane to the CBA.

You lose your right to attend meetings, vote on your officers, your cba and a strike.

By law the union STILL MUST represent them in any matter under the CBA, if a union fails to represent the member they would be hit and found liable for a DFR Claim/Charge.

Go read Beck vs CWA a Federal Supreme Court Decision.

700uw,

3 right and 1 wrong is the fact.


Correct me if I am wrong but you can be a member or not be a member.

1. Correct...But you will still pay a percentage of your paycheck to the union.

2. Correct....If you do not pay then the company fires you.

3. Correct....You do not get to vote on future items.

4. Technically Wrong, but just how good will the representation be?......You will have no legal represenation by the union.

 

[700UW]

You are correct, but any union that represents a non-member or a dues objector better make sure they represent the person as they would anyone else or you would see a DFR slap on the union so fast it would make thier head spin.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Two points here Sir:

One, if the East pilots are successful in their effort to replace ALPA on the property, isn't it obvious that the parting shot from ALPA national will be to deliver the list? Once delivered and surely accepted, how does USAPA intend to undo that which is already done? Certifying USAPA will not happen over night and I assure you ALPA national won't be cordial about it.

Two, there was very little meaningful negotiation in the merger processs last time. What makes you think that the West pilots will find a DOH integration method any more reasonable this time around? That is sure to be the method East writes into the constitution and bylaws of the new union. What happens if West pilots vote as a block and take control of USAPA and change it to suit themselves?

I'm not trying to be a jerk. I have real questions and I'm not seeing many satisfactory answers. This is probably not the place to look anyway.

A320 Driver :unsure:

Would the LCC furloughee resignations change the impact of DOH on AWA's list? Would it be significant?

 

[ussnark]

One, if the East pilots are successful in their effort to replace ALPA on the property, isn't it obvious that the parting shot from ALPA national will be to deliver the list? Once delivered and surely accepted, how does USAPA intend to undo that which is already done? Certifying USAPA will not happen over night and I assure you ALPA national won't be cordial about it.

The "award" means nothing without a joint CBA to go along with it. Cordial or not, all ALPA can do is throw a temper tantrum.

Two, there was very little meaningful negotiation in the merger processs last time. What makes you think that the West pilots will find a DOH integration method any more reasonable this time around? That is sure to be the method East writes into the constitution and bylaws of the new union. What happens if West pilots vote as a block and take control of USAPA and change it to suit themselves?

If the DOH/LOS methodology is written into the constitution, then any change will have to come from a more than a 2/3 vote. See APA/SWAPA Constitution. BTW 1900 out of 5000 is hardly a majority, block or no.

 

[b737fo]

The "award" means nothing without a joint CBA to go along with it. Cordial or not, all ALPA can do is throw a temper tantrum.
If the DOH/LOS methodology is written into the constitution, then any change will have to come from a more than a 2/3 vote. See APA/SWAPA Constitution. BTW 1900 out of 5000 is hardly a majority, block or no.

A joint CBA seems to be a hard sell now for either ALPA, USAPA, or any other letters of the alphabet that may end up as the pilot union at US Airways.
Interesting point about the 2/3 majority in the C&BL of SWAPA and APA. 1900 out of 5000 would not make a 2/3 majority for anyone.