Pilots Sue Airlines And Thier Union

[USA320Pilot]

BoeingBoy:

You're very good at trying to twist information, which is typical of the RC4 and their supporters.

To clarigy, every pilot who knows the details is "mad at he11" at being sued.

ALPA has supported the MDA pilots, but the company can sell any asset they desire and ALPA cannot stop them. It was the MDA pilots who urged the MEC to not pursue an expedited arbitration until it was too late to have an opinion and award provided before the transaction closed.

Every MDA pilot who does ALPA work, except for Jim Portale, are not party to the suit. Interesting, huh...

A lot of pilots believe ALPA supported the MDA pilots be creating a job that was designed for a furloughed pilot to have a "soft landing", create an opportunity for low time pilots to obtain 1,000 hours of PIC so they could go to another carrier like JetBlue or Southwest, and paid for their medical insurance for their family during their furlough. Is the Eagle contract very good? No, of course not, but every MDA piltos knew the terms when they accpeted the job. Correct?

Is J4J or MDA a great deal? No, of course not, but it was created by ALPA to help pilots during the transition in the worst possible times and nobody forced anybody to go to MDA, Mesa, TSA, or any other carrier.

Now it is my understanding that Northwest ALPA is considering permitting 100-seat RJ flying go to affiliate carrier's because of the problems with MDA and J4J at US Airways.

Finally, I believe this lawsuit could be dragged through the courts for years, which happens a lot, and there could be counter lawsuits. ALPA Legal is studying all of its options and will proceed accordingly and in my opinion, the only winner's will be the lawyers and everybody else will lose, especially the MDA pilots.

Do I like this? No, of course not. But there is really not a lot I can do.

Let me clarify a point because Mike made a good comment, those pilots that are informed and not apathetic are "nad as He11" at being sued, but they do know that ALPA has a very good and well funded legal department.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[BoeingBoy]

You're very good at trying to twist information, which is typical of the RC4 and their supporters.

Is that why you're the one "clarifying" your statements.....

To clarigy, every pilot who knows the details is "mad at he11" at being sued.

Let me clarify a point because Mike made a good comment, those pilots that are informed and not apathetic are "nad as He11" at being sued, but they do know that ALPA has a very good and well funded legal department.

Of course, even in that last statement, you attempt to portray a falsehood. Every informed and non-apathetic pilot is not "mad as He11", But, hey, making your view seem more important that it could ever be is nothing new, is it?

A final point.....

Now it is my understanding that Northwest ALPA is considering permitting 100-seat RJ flying go to affiliate carrier's because of the problems with MDA and J4J at US Airways.

Another bit of "twisting information", perhaps. NWA is considering setting up an internal division to fly 70-90 seaters. That sure doesn't sound like they're concerned about "problems with MDA and J4J". Sounds more like they're going by the US playbook - move mainline jobs to a low paid "division" while eliminating mainline pilot jobs. Something you, Garland, and the ya-ya brotherhood fully supported here.....

Jim

 

[fr8tmastr]

320, I wont even bother responding to your last post, its obvious that nothing I can say would ever open your mind, that will change when they come after your beloved 320. But in the meantime just try and remember the MDA pilots are you, we are all Airways pilots, and if the company and ALPA wanted the vast majority of the lawsuit to just go away, all they have to do is quit trying to hose the folks at MDA, and honor the contracts. From the company's perspective a good start is the change of control issue, and from ALPA perspective they need to admit we are really Airways guys, the company has. "Admit we are Airways", that sounds so ridiculous I cant believe it sometimes, and that is the whole point of the suit.

 

[SoldWholeSale]

Wow.... If Bull $h*t were music, you'd be a brass band!

The suit is "class action", thus only those who didn't care are named specifically. The rest are not named and do not have to be, this is why we have a rotating 5 person advisory board each week. No names which don't wish to be listed. Thus, I won't name names in regard to who is, and who is not involved in the suit. I'll just say this; There were two (2) pilots on the MDA list who did not vote to procede with this action.

ALPA has supported the MDA pilots??? Why then, was the first order of business after MDA was announced to be on the mainline certificate, a motion to limit the availability of the jumpseat reservation system to EXCLUDE MDA pilots? Why then was a finished contract not a priority? Why then did it take TWO unanimous resolutions and a filed suit to get approval for picketing? Why then, was a major change to pay and work rules not voted on as such is required by the AAA contract?

A soft landing? When the deal started both Pollock and Ashby called it "the savior of the airline"? Make up your mind?

Low time pilots...... Try mostly 10,000 hour+ pilots with long military/commuter/corporate careers prior to joining the ranks of USAir/PSA/Piedmont/Allagheney. Give me a break.

There will be no counter suits..... Should that happen, there will be specific AAA members named, and the monetary provisions for such eventuality have been made. You lose....

There are 82 pages in the suit, 350+ pages of documentation of FACT, and another 190 pages of supporting information from other sources and suits. The term "slam dunk" has been uttered by more than one nationally renound attorney when presented with the complaints and facts. You see, we aren't a bunch of ignorant underlings, we did actually interview different candidates for legal council.

I bet you can't find a single pilot in PHL, PIT, or DCA who is mad as hell and not wearing a silver union pin. Most who are truely informed and know that having the MDA pilots as part of the airline could only help them in a seniority integration with HP, are not only in our corner, but contributing financially as well.

Cash counts for something, but can't trump a good case, absolute truth, and a class group of professionals.

Sober up, and face the facts. The biggest liar you will ever meet watches you shave his face in the mirror every morning.

ALL OR NONE!

SH

 

[N924PS]

deleted by moderator.



Mod comment: please don't assume the identity of a poster.

edited by Todd B 10:40am Oct 15th.

 

[Mike]

>>>>"ALPA has supported the MDA pilots"<<<<Hummm, I guess that's why there are pilots who were hired in 1989 flying as F/O to people who were hired in 1999. 320, you should be applying for a management position, not a pilot rep. What a joke!

 

[TheLarkAscending]

Blah, blah, blah

Perhaps you do not realize that by constantly repeating yourself about one particular, or any particular matter over and over again, ad nauseum, you render yourself ineffective and everything you state becomes meaningless chatter. No one listens to a repetitive mantra, no one. They shut it out, turn it off, glance and laugh or ignore it altogether. You will not change anything by repeating your stance. You gain nothing but the reputation of being a laughing stock. You have essentially slayed yourself again with your own words. Congratulations!

Additionally, no one here believes you are concerned about the financial stability of any of those individuals involved in the class action. This drumbeat is the same, just a different subject: Do it my way or there may possibly be unpleasant circumstances as a result.

If anyone states that there may possibly be unpleasant circumstances, it most assuredly indicates that they really don't mean what they're saying or they truly don't have a clue about what is actually going on. (BeeeEssing) Taking that down to the most basic level: that is sending an insignificant message - any good parent knows that. Empty threats.

 

[SoldWholeSale]

A Few Questions?

ok

I assume the case was filed? If so in what venue?
NY and CT District Courts

Any preliminary hearings as yet? What were the results?
None yet. Complaint was filed, and the defendants have 20 days to respond before the show starts

Has the suit been certified as a class action?
To the best of my knowege, Yes it is certified as "Class Action"

Has Discovery been ordered?
I don't believe that has happened yet, but we are looking forward to the process


Hope that helps.

ALL OR NONE!

SH

 

[CaptianBoomer]

The problem is not what happened to the MDA pilots......the crux of the suit is that their bargaining agent (ALPA) and their negotiators were required by the process to give up contractual provisions in order to keep the company solvent. They gave up the MDA pilots longevity, pay rates, benefits, and eventually their protections in the event of a sale/breakup without the benefit of having their own representative on the playing field and in the process saved themselves from perhaps an even more painful restructuring.

They were also personally indemnified from suits by the company in restructuring # 1....don't know where that ended up as of now.

If that isn't the cherry on the ice cream, nothing is.

That light at the end of the tunnel is not nirvana....it is the train coming at the U/AWA group. Sure they get the E190 flying but the affiliates get up to 93 CRJ90's.......see how many 737 leave now. They will reap what they have sown.

Boomer

 

[PHL757]

Did I say I missed the meeting?

I was there for a major part of it and I know you are full of crap. I spoke today with one of the MDA heros and I can tell you they are prepared for any countersuit. Their lawyer, habor, has told them they will get to court and he will not tolerate ALPAs crap. They have been told that the next step is individual suits against the MEC members if the problems in the complaint are not appropriately addressed.

The very concept of a countersuit is childish and can only have come from you as it was not discussed by anyone at the meeting in open session except D'Angelo who blurted it out in an emotional and meaningless wish. See? I was there. Now tell me again what was said in open session? You and your buddy are flirting with serious problems by breaching confidentiality.

I will tell you this. If one penny of my dues is spent to file lawsuits against these MDA pilots I will go balistic on this ALPA. I have been watching these fools give away everything I've worked for and I will not tolerate them fighting a group of heros that finally stood up for what is right.

I have donated $500 towards there cause through the website and I'll give more if it's necessary. I was told it was not required. These guys have been collecting for 5 months.

Stop your crap Chip and take the advise of those of us that know you. Go sit in the corner and shut up.

RB

 

[USA320Pilot]

The ALPA Negotiating Committee has a MDA pilot who negotiated the contract terms and he and other MDA pilots who hold ALPA positions, except for Jim Portale, are not part of the suit either. Guess why? Furthermore, who do you think they will be a witness for, if the lawsuit does not get thron out of court for no merit?

The contract violation happened when MDA was sold and all of the pilots not transferred with the aircraft per LOA 91. Why? The Repulbic IBT would not honor LOA 91 and instead agreed to J4J. Could the MEC stop that? Some members tried by immediately seeking an expedited arbitration hearing, but the MDA pilots begged the MEC to hold off on filing the grievance. The MEC agreed to the MDA pilot desires and now the grievance O&A will not be received until after the transaction has been completed.

A good Representative listens to their Advisors, listens to his or her constitents, and fights for the best deal possible. During a down economic time you limit the damage and an up economic time you seek contract gains. Some people believed pre-bankruptcy exit that you could just say "no" and everything would be o.k. Well the US Airways IAM and now the Northwest AMFA unions proved that was a near fatal mistake.

See Story

Today is different because now US Airways' unions have negotiating leverage because as ALPA MEC chairman Bill Pollock told the MEC last week the company is now the third financially strongest airline in the industry.

Meanwhile, I believe the MDA lawsuit will be tied up in the court's for a very, very long time and could potentially cost a lot of money in legal fees. However, what's knew when talking about lawsuits?

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[TheLarkAscending]

A good Representative listens to their Advisors, listens to his or her constitents...

Here ya go then, since you feel that strongly, please heed the following advice:

 

[Bear96]

Ya know, I was initially skeptical about the MDA pilots' claims.

But (as PineyBob has already pointed out), the more I see USAE170reserveF/O protest and sweat and try to rationalize, the more and more I think there must be some real merit to the lawsuit.

 

[BoeingBoy]

A good Representative listens to their Advisors, listens to his or her constitents, and fights for the best deal possible.

Brought to you by the person who wrote:

"As for ALPA being able to stop any of this, the only way is to capitulate and give the company far in excess of $295 million a year as stipulated in the latest company 'proposal'."

Jim

 

[SoldWholeSale]

Ignorance, lies, attempted deception, and if he gets into MEC office, another suit waiting to happen..... Maybe time spent on USAviation.com would be better spend at AA meetings.

ALL OR NONE!

SH