Pilots Sue Airlines And Thier Union
- Thread starter Light Years
- Start date
Smartest Loser
Senior
- Jun 20, 2003
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aquagreen73s said:
HighFlyerMiami
Member
- Aug 22, 2005
- 51
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Does anyone have a copy of the suit?
A320 Driver said:
Are you really that naive? I don't understand why people don't get it... 737 flying is being replaced by Embraer flying, disguised as RJ flying! These jets are already flying from our east coast hubs and focus cities to IAH, DFW, MSP. These are mainline routes! All the while, Boeing/Aribus Division crews are letting it happen and trampling all over their junior brothern, saying "people should just be happy to have a job!" Well, maybe that's true in this day and age, those of us who love to fly should be happy we have a job that allows us to do it. But I can assure you if you were suddenly shuffled into a sham division and told that you could still fly, but you would be making Burger King wages, you would not be happy. People at the legacy carriers have been pointing fingers at SW, saying they have bastardized the profession. What do you think is happening here, right in front of our noses? We have senior pilots selling out junior pilots and then looking them in the eye and saying "you are lucky you have a job." "Quit complaining." Yet do the senior pilots and flight attendants really try to open their eyes to see what they have created. Your flying is being outsourced. Your flying is being outsourced. Your flying is being outsourced. I can't say it enough... YOUR flying is being outsourced!
We have pilots and flight attendants, mainline trained and certified, working for a fraction of what they were before... pilots about 50%... and paying three times for medical insurance, yet with coverage that is barely perceptible. Should they be happy when they have to file for personal bankruptcy, or send their kids to a community college even though they've been saving for years to send them to MIT? Or when they have to sell their homes because they can't pay the mortgage? Or when their car gets reposessed? Should they feel lucky that everything they've worked for and fought hard for are gone... duty rigs, paid deadheading, decent hotels, decent per diem, pay at pushback. All GONE.
Yet, that wasn't enough for the company. UAIR saw how it screwed everyone over and the unions and senior people let it happen. So now it is outsourcing the "soft landing" it promised. If Embraer flying ever come back to "mainline" it will be because of DP and AWA ALPA. But the fleet type (E170 and the Foker-like E190) is GONE, as things stand today. As 737's leave the property, outsourced Embraers will follow in their place. And it is the senior people who let it happen.
If I were a senior pilot or flight attendant, I'd be embarassed that I let it happen. The company has played you like a well-tuned Stratavarius.
But what you just don't seem to understand, is that without junior people, your senior status doesn't mean squat!
-DCAflyer
fatherabraham
Veteran
- Sep 27, 2002
- 814
- 354
DCAflyer,
Best factual post I have read in a long time.
Do you think your seniority group may be hurt financially if ALPA loses?
FA
Best factual post I have read in a long time.
Do you think your seniority group may be hurt financially if ALPA loses?
FA
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #52
fatherabraham said:
While I certainly can't give any specifics - I understand that ALPA national may have some kind of insurance coverage for DFR liability and individual MEC members have or are advised to secure same - since I have no idea what type of monetary damages may ultimately result and whether that would result in some type of assessment or not. Even if such an assessment happened, would it be for all ALPA pilots or just US/US-East pilots.
Having said that, and from a vantage point very high on the seniority roster, I'll say "So what?" The J4J/MDA "soft landing" was a laudable concept badly managed by ALPA. The pilots that ended up with the short end of the stick deserved better than passing a couple of resolutions and otherwise silence as the laudable concept morphed into the royal mess it is today.
There's the MDA pilots facing loss of their jobs and all the union can say is "Hey, we've filed a grievence. Don't know how it'll turn out so we can't give you any guidance, so make your own decision" (and by the way, ALPA's off the hook if your decision turns out to be the wrong one...
There's the Mesa J4J pilots facing reversion to their position on the Mesa seniority list as the US-East Mesa flying transfers to other airlines and thet J4J program disappears. Where's their guidance from ALPA as far as options?
There's the CHQ J4J pilots who are allowed transfer to the Republic 170's per the contract they work under - the CHQ contract - but the whole MDA mess puts them in the position of being called "scabs" if they do what their contract allows them to do or possibly seeing their J4J positions eliminated if the CHQ E145 flying is reduced. Where's ALPA's stance on their position and options?
As the saying goes, "What a tangled web we weave" and the J4J/MDA folks are caught in the web through no fault of their own.
So more power to them and I hope they win.....
Jim
nycbusdriver
Veteran
USA320Pilot said:
You are SO FULL of hot air you must need a hot air balloon license to walk down the street. You've been touting all of this crap about lawsuits by ALPA against individuals, ALPA charges against the PHL and PIT reps, and on and on. NONE of it EVER comes to fruition. YOU are an empty shirt who likes nothing more that to hear himself pontificate.
This lawsuit, and several others by pilots, against ALPA and the company are REAL. They have been filed in Federal courts and are NOT the empty threats you squeal about incessantly.
Get over it, you pompous, clueless A**.
sweet-tart
Member
- Sep 11, 2005
- 38
- 0
DCAflyer said:
DCAflyer your post comes straight from 'six o'clock'!!! Thanks for some insightful info!InclusiveScope
Member
- Sep 1, 2002
- 55
- 0
From the RJDC website:
Attorney's Info:
Michael S. Haber, Esq. has been practicing law since 1986 and is admitted to practice law in New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, US District Courts for the Southern and Eastern Districts of New York, the District of New Jersey, and the District of Connecticut. He is also admitted to practice before the US Court of Appeals for the Second and Third Circuit and the US Supreme Court.
A large percentage of Mr. Haber's practice consists of representation of persons employed in the aviation industry in the area of labor and employment law. Mr. Haber currently represents employees of USAirways, Piedmont Airways, Comair Airlines, Atlantic Southeast Airlines (ASA) and American Airlines. In the past, Mr. Haber has represented pilots and other airline employees concerning their employment at Pan American World Airways, Delta Air Lines, and United Air Lines.
http://www.rjdefense.com
Attorney's Info:
Michael S. Haber, Esq. has been practicing law since 1986 and is admitted to practice law in New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, US District Courts for the Southern and Eastern Districts of New York, the District of New Jersey, and the District of Connecticut. He is also admitted to practice before the US Court of Appeals for the Second and Third Circuit and the US Supreme Court.
A large percentage of Mr. Haber's practice consists of representation of persons employed in the aviation industry in the area of labor and employment law. Mr. Haber currently represents employees of USAirways, Piedmont Airways, Comair Airlines, Atlantic Southeast Airlines (ASA) and American Airlines. In the past, Mr. Haber has represented pilots and other airline employees concerning their employment at Pan American World Airways, Delta Air Lines, and United Air Lines.
http://www.rjdefense.com
InclusiveScope
Member
- Sep 1, 2002
- 55
- 0
USA320Pilot,
Mr. Haber is involved in other current and past DFR lawsuits against ALPA. ALPA has not filed countersuits against any of the RJDC, PFR, TWA, or Duke/Spellacy pilots. Why would this lawsuit be any different?
Here are some of the other lawsuit websites:
http://www.rjdefense.com
http://www.twapaf.com/
http://www.pilots4fair.freeservers.com/
http://www.psapilotalliance.8m.com/
Mr. Haber is involved in other current and past DFR lawsuits against ALPA. ALPA has not filed countersuits against any of the RJDC, PFR, TWA, or Duke/Spellacy pilots. Why would this lawsuit be any different?
Here are some of the other lawsuit websites:
http://www.rjdefense.com
http://www.twapaf.com/
http://www.pilots4fair.freeservers.com/
http://www.psapilotalliance.8m.com/
A320 Driver
Veteran
- Aug 24, 2002
- 3,358
- 2,319
As 737's leave the property, outsourced Embraers will follow in their place. And it is the senior people who let it happen.
If I were a senior pilot or flight attendant, I'd be embarassed that I let it happen. The company has played you like a well-tuned Stratavarius.
But what you just don't seem to understand, is that without junior people, your senior status doesn't mean squat!
-DCAflyer
No kidding...and what EXACTLY were we supposed to do about it. We went from the best scope language in the industry to the worst...THE WORST. Regional carriers ready to slit our throats and undercut our pay to fly the "jets"and here we sit pointing the finger at each other. Mainline this/MDA that, dark siders, give away gang. I'M SICK OF ALL THIS COMPLAINING. You act as if the MEC coldly calculated all this. Trust me pal, they aren't that smart. We just got played again with this EMB190 flying. We get the flying "in house" but at the very same time we give the company 93 CRJ900 outsourced aircraft. Why the heck would they buy the darn things to start with. This whole situation sucks but lets make it worse. Lets point the finger at each other instead of lousy managers, failed business plans, greedy oil companies, ineffective government and people willing to do OUR jobs for pennies on the dollar. So, now the solution is to follow the money trail...right to the same pockets that paid for medical insurance for furloughed pilots and made concessions to keep people working.
Embarassed...yeah I'm embaressed. I'm embarassed that we're reduced to labels and name calling like children.
For Pete's sake take your toys and go home.
A320 Driver
If I were a senior pilot or flight attendant, I'd be embarassed that I let it happen. The company has played you like a well-tuned Stratavarius.
But what you just don't seem to understand, is that without junior people, your senior status doesn't mean squat!
-DCAflyer
No kidding...and what EXACTLY were we supposed to do about it. We went from the best scope language in the industry to the worst...THE WORST. Regional carriers ready to slit our throats and undercut our pay to fly the "jets"and here we sit pointing the finger at each other. Mainline this/MDA that, dark siders, give away gang. I'M SICK OF ALL THIS COMPLAINING. You act as if the MEC coldly calculated all this. Trust me pal, they aren't that smart. We just got played again with this EMB190 flying. We get the flying "in house" but at the very same time we give the company 93 CRJ900 outsourced aircraft. Why the heck would they buy the darn things to start with. This whole situation sucks but lets make it worse. Lets point the finger at each other instead of lousy managers, failed business plans, greedy oil companies, ineffective government and people willing to do OUR jobs for pennies on the dollar. So, now the solution is to follow the money trail...right to the same pockets that paid for medical insurance for furloughed pilots and made concessions to keep people working.
Embarassed...yeah I'm embaressed. I'm embarassed that we're reduced to labels and name calling like children.
For Pete's sake take your toys and go home.
A320 Driver
A320 Driver said:
Oh, spare me the "we tried to keep you working" crap. The people who voted for this sham were trying to save either their left seat or their place in the big boys club. It was each man for himself... pure and simple. I don't mean to say that every pilot had that mentality or even that you did. I'm just saying the the the attitude of A320Pilot (Everyone else should sacrifice their jobs so HE can be saved) was for the most part the prevailing attitude... perhaps not that overt, but it was there and it got the company what it wanted. Don't believe me, well ask yourself this. Why aren't the Boeing/Airbus pilots up on arms over the sale of MAA to republic? Truth is, most of them couldn't care less or worse don't even know it happend. Sure, we hear the old song and dance routine that "it sure is sad what they're doing to you guys." But no sentiment with teeth. No donations to pay for the lawyer. No letters to ALPA demanding that their full efforts be put behind this. No phone call to the MAA MEC prez (at least that I've heard of) asking what the Boeing/Aribus drivers can do. No nothin' except "it sure is sad!"
As for name calling and labels, I believe I've used neither, yet you used the label "childish." So go play with your own toys.
-DCAflyer
A320 Driver
Veteran
- Aug 24, 2002
- 3,358
- 2,319
You're quick to condemn. I'll ask you again. What EXACTLY should have been done after 911 to stop the bloodletting. Since you obviously know more about pilot mentality and motive than the rest of us, tell us EXACTLY were we went wrong and how your solution would have preserved jobs and strengthened our contract.
I'm all ears.
A320 Driver
I'm all ears.
A320 Driver
