US1YFARE
Veteran
- Mar 31, 2004
- 3,932
- 54
No no no
You don't even follow
If you did, your product would be better
You are indeed laggards in this industry thanks to the DoUgIe.
Purser(Lead) F/A on the A333?
- Thread starter az_wild727
- Start date
You don't even follow
If you did, your product would be better
You are indeed laggards in this industry thanks to the DoUgIe.
The terminology is confusing because on most airlines the "Purser" is the lead for the entire cabin, and is usually a F/A that has been specially qualified for the position.
US Airways uses the term CSD (Cabin Service Director) for the lead position, and Purser for the B, or aft lead. These are British Airways terms left over from the BA wet lease US did. Ours are not qualified, any F/A can take the position regardless of experience or skill.
US needs a qualified purser program worse than Whitney needs crack. The two lead positions should only be given to someone who knows the service, aircraft, and procedures inside out and has proven leadership skills. Some people take the position just for the pay, but encourage cutting corners on service or have no idea what they are doing. It's amazing how some of them shrink in the background when a real situation occurs. International flights should require a purser and if they are on a domestic flight they need to be in the A position.
If the next generation of cabin crew is as US and other airlines want- temporary, minimum wage workers- then it's even more important to have some form of leadership and supervision on board the aircraft.
US Airways uses the term CSD (Cabin Service Director) for the lead position, and Purser for the B, or aft lead. These are British Airways terms left over from the BA wet lease US did. Ours are not qualified, any F/A can take the position regardless of experience or skill.
US needs a qualified purser program worse than Whitney needs crack. The two lead positions should only be given to someone who knows the service, aircraft, and procedures inside out and has proven leadership skills. Some people take the position just for the pay, but encourage cutting corners on service or have no idea what they are doing. It's amazing how some of them shrink in the background when a real situation occurs. International flights should require a purser and if they are on a domestic flight they need to be in the A position.
If the next generation of cabin crew is as US and other airlines want- temporary, minimum wage workers- then it's even more important to have some form of leadership and supervision on board the aircraft.
sharktooth
Veteran
- Jan 27, 2006
- 1,846
- 0
sharktooth
Veteran
- Jan 27, 2006
- 1,846
- 0
I think that's pretty much a given. As far as the cabin though, it's the Purser, or for DespAirways non-qualified CSD. The captain doesn't need to be concerned about service issues, IFE malfunctions, minor customer issues etc.
Art was asking about the position and what it entails... on that Asian carrier you were on it's really a seperate position, like a wandering supervisor. For something more small time like US, the position works in Envoy and is required for the service. However, they are accountable for the rest of the crew, as well as all of the paperwork etc... there's more than you'd think. They usually have more power as far as issuing upgrades or vouchers and such. On a domestic flight they would just fill the A position, but still have those extra skills. The company would benefit from having someone who has gained extra skills and responsibility up there as opposed to someone who takes A because their feet hurt ot they need to do their bids.
Art was asking about the position and what it entails... on that Asian carrier you were on it's really a seperate position, like a wandering supervisor. For something more small time like US, the position works in Envoy and is required for the service. However, they are accountable for the rest of the crew, as well as all of the paperwork etc... there's more than you'd think. They usually have more power as far as issuing upgrades or vouchers and such. On a domestic flight they would just fill the A position, but still have those extra skills. The company would benefit from having someone who has gained extra skills and responsibility up there as opposed to someone who takes A because their feet hurt ot they need to do their bids.
EMBFA,
Thank you for the explanation. I found it interesting that you thought I was traveling on an Asian carrier. That however was not the case. I was on a US carrier. The route should tell you who that carrier is. And I must say the service and experience was very similar to what I have had from Asian carriers.
That said, even if the position is little more than perception, I think it requires adequate staffing first of all in order to be effective--and we all know that this may be an issue when US tries it.
Thank you for the explanation. I found it interesting that you thought I was traveling on an Asian carrier. That however was not the case. I was on a US carrier. The route should tell you who that carrier is. And I must say the service and experience was very similar to what I have had from Asian carriers.
That said, even if the position is little more than perception, I think it requires adequate staffing first of all in order to be effective--and we all know that this may be an issue when US tries it.
N903AW
Veteran
Art "works hard and flies right" when he travels to Beijing!
or (and this is really going back in time)
That CSD and the crew "really moved their tail for you" when you flew to China!
or (and this is really going back in time)
That CSD and the crew "really moved their tail for you" when you flew to China!
You threw me off with the "CSD"... CO calls theirs CSM.
As for staffing, it would be similar to the LO/DO program.
EMB,
I wasn't sure of the actual title, it was the job responsibility--
And 903, there's just no getting past you on that one ...LOL....and I did get the tail reference
I am really looking forward to getting home though....and I leave for SHE airport in about 5 hours.
See y'all then.
I wasn't sure of the actual title, it was the job responsibility--
And 903, there's just no getting past you on that one ...LOL....and I did get the tail reference
I am really looking forward to getting home though....and I leave for SHE airport in about 5 hours.
See y'all then.
Travelpro72
Veteran
- Jan 30, 2005
- 4,964
- 455
Talk about needing a purser program. I did the 767 and the guy who used his seniority to take "A" or CSD could NOT arm his door and asked the "D". He could NOT operate the video thought the instructions are color coded on the video closet door. He didn't know the service AT ALL. His defense......"I ONLY fly the A330". Well what the F are you doing up here flying CSD? You can do you OWN door and blow the slide and take the rap. You can be like a lost child in the woods for your service. You can also explain to the rest of the crew standing around waiting that you are video challenged. THAT is a prime example as to WHY a purser program is needed. Oh how about the woman on T/A who in the briefing says right away, "NO CARTS" meaning the folding carts. Well won't SHE be in for a shock come training for the new service. AAAAAHAHAHAHAHA! 
If there was dedicated CSD program that I think would be great, however the AFA would oppose the creation of such because if would create "SUPER SENIORITY" amongst the flight attendant group. AFA won the greveiance against the company when they tried to give the LOD/Os super seniority. The closet thing was when there was the TA Division that created consistancy in a product when our international service was an award winning product. Because you only flew transatlantic for a minimum of one year your knew what the product was because that is all you did. Now you can could in from a 4 day today and tomorrow fly to Rome. The transatlantic service use to be like a well chorograph ballet. If was really interesting to see because everybody knew what to do and when to do it. It was consistant.
Correction. The union does not "oppose" a purser program. The reason that US does not have one is that they are not willing to pay for it.
Who picks them?
Now you have a group that will NOT be able to use their seniority to earn more money.
A purser program is direly needed here at US, however they will not get it until they are willing to pay the 4500 flight attendants to get it. It falls under CONCESSION. And, as we all know, we will not take anymore of those. US is a conglomeration of small carriers, hence no significant international history, hence no existing purser position. Other legacy carriers started with it and have an existing experience with it. UsAirways getting it now will be expensive, and that is to all our benefit. They can have it tomorrow, just pay me.
Frankly, it's more likely that the fence would come back, but that's doubtful.
Who picks them?
Now you have a group that will NOT be able to use their seniority to earn more money.
A purser program is direly needed here at US, however they will not get it until they are willing to pay the 4500 flight attendants to get it. It falls under CONCESSION. And, as we all know, we will not take anymore of those. US is a conglomeration of small carriers, hence no significant international history, hence no existing purser position. Other legacy carriers started with it and have an existing experience with it. UsAirways getting it now will be expensive, and that is to all our benefit. They can have it tomorrow, just pay me.
Frankly, it's more likely that the fence would come back, but that's doubtful.
I'm sorry, but all of the above is the usual small-time hokey-poke USAir mentality.
A purser program is not "super seniority", it is a position that all are welcome to interview for. Just like those standards coaches or whatever. You want the 100 hours? Interview for it and take the tests. It would be the same for purser.
Almost all of the "big" carriers represented by AFA have a qualified purser program so the AFA itself is not opposed to it. In fact, the last internet poll by US AFA had a question about a purser program. What you mean is some lazy senior people wouldn't like it. Oh well! The AFA is the membership, us. I'm sick of people telling me what the union likes and doesn't like. I'm the union, so my peeps and I will tell them want we want, not the opposite.
The division was cheesy. I was in it. There should never be any sort of 'division' in a single work group period. There are service procedures that all F/As should be properly trained on and held accountable to. There should be no difference in the level of professionalism from a short hop to a transatlantic flight. All service should be well choreographed. It's not brain surgery, and we do the same thing over and over. I can't understand how people can have been a F/A for decades and can't perform something as simple as a dinner service and make it look elegant and effortless. How do you work as a stew for years and still have your service look like five elephants chasing each other around in different directions?
It's supposed to be interesting to see how choreographed and efficient it is. Everyone is supposed to know what they are doing. It's supposed to be consistant. These are the basics of doing it, that you build on to do it well. US Airways is the smallest airline, smallest group of F/As, smallest amount of international service, least amount of service... how hard is it to have 7000 F/As all trained to the same standard? Other carriers are able to maintain it with three times that many F/As, much more varying intl routes, more classes of service, more types of service, a much higher amount of service, with no division. US Airways is small time and needs to grow up if it wants to be taken seriously, but so do the F/As themselves.
