Ramp Agents Only, Please

[Ramp Rogue]

Rouge in many of your examples you seem to be straight DOH irregardless. In my example see
if you still agree: Employee #1 and #2 are hired one week apart as P/T. After one month a F/T
position becomes available but the shift is Tues./ Wed. off 1530-0001. Employee #1 turns it down
because he currently has weekends off and makes up for the difference in swaps and OT. Employee
#2 takes the upgarde and gets added to the F/T roster. Now 6 months down the road a F/T position
becomes available again but this time it is Sun./Mon. off 1400/2230 and employee #1 takes it. Now
your saying that when the new bid comes up Employee #1 should go ahead of Employee#2 due to
DOH and in that I don't agree. Employee #1 should still have more senoirity for sick time, vacation
and any layoffs but I agree with ''perserverance'' that in bidding his ''bidding senioirity'' should be
affected. Now if anybody's P/T or F/T staus is impacted by the company than thier seniority should
not be affected but remain DOH throughout. Any ramifications to ones' ''bidding seniority'' should
only be due to ones' own choices.

bob

Bob,
These are not hypothetical examples. They are all true. In your example, you can't condemn employee #1 for not taking the upgrade unless you truly know what his life situation is. There may be circumstances where he can't take the upgrade for personal reasons. That would be unfair to him if he had to lose seniority because of things that were out of his control. You and I are p/t. You are hired on Day A, I am hired on Day B. A f/t slot opens in another city. You turn it down. I take it. I have no kids, family or anything tying me down to the city I was hired in. You have a wife, two school age kids, a house, and a parent you take care of. Should you lose seniority to me because I was able to go and you weren't? Each persons situation is different. Think about it before condemning DOH.

 

[Ramp Rogue]

CLTRAMP,
I couldn't have said it better. It's hard to argue seniority with someone when all you have to ask them is for the day they were hired. Once they tell you, the argument is over. But when everyone has a bunch of adjusted dates, the argument is continuous.

 

[cltramp]

#

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Rouge in many of your examples you seem to be straight DOH irregardless.


bob

Bob,

Let me clarify it. I am not DOH regardless. The day you are hired on the ramp, be it p/t or f/t, that is your date for bidding everything. Hence, DOH.

If you were hired on the ticket counter, X amount of time ago, and decided to transfer to the ramp, the first day you work on the ramp is your DOH. Not the day that you started on the ticket counter. The same goes for utility, mechanics, stores, or any other non ramp job. Also there should not be any closed bids. Everyone should have the opportunity to try for any job vacancy. Highest DOH gets the job. I hope that clears things up for you.

Rogue

 

[700UW]

That would not be date of hire, that would be date of classification.

 

[lineguy43]

Bob,

Let me clarify it. I am not DOH regardless. The day you are hired on the ramp, be it p/t or f/t, that is your date for bidding everything. Hence, DOH.

If you were hired on the ticket counter, X amount of time ago, and decided to transfer to the ramp, the first day you work on the ramp is your DOH. Not the day that you started on the ticket counter. The same goes for utility, mechanics, stores, or any other non ramp job. Also there should not be any closed bids. Everyone should have the opportunity to try for any job vacancy. Highest DOH gets the job. I hope that clears things up for you.

Rogue

I agree I wish it had been that was at nwa when I hired on. I hired in as a p/t ramper the first one ever hired at my station. I worked for 6 months then another p/t ese was hired then 2 months later we both got f/t positions and he had seniority(f/t) on me because the first initial of his last name was higher than mine and we got f/t the same day even though I had 6 months hire date on him but because it was p/t it didn't count. I felt that was wrong. It didn't matter anyway because one month later I became a mechanic.

 

[bob dylan]

rouge- your missing my point alitle. I wish DOH was across the board. I'm saying
I don't feel I deserve a F/T sen. when I saw others take it and suffer while I baited
my time til it was convienent for me..thats' all

bob

 

[Kev3188]

I agree I wish it had been that was at nwa when I hired on. I hired in as a p/t ramper the first one ever hired at my station. I worked for 6 months then another p/t ese was hired then 2 months later we both got f/t positions and he had seniority(f/t) on me because the first initial of his last name was higher than mine and we got f/t the same day even though I had 6 months hire date on him but because it was p/t it didn't count. I felt that was wrong. It didn't matter anyway because one month later I became a mechanic.

Not sure when this was (I'm guessing quite awhile ago, since you were the first PT hired), but you should have still gone ahead of him due to your longer service with the company. Perhaps this changed after you became an AMT? Either way, that's how it has been for some time now (at least 10 years).

"Last name seniority" only applies to DOH, or as a tiebreaker. In your case, yes you both had the same FT seniority, but on the master seniority list, you should have been listed first.


EDIT: Not for nothing, but in my station we had 2 PT'ers with the same last name get FT on the same date. The one with more company seniority is listed first, and bids first.

 

[Ramp Rogue]

rouge- your missing my point a little. I wish DOH was across the board. I'm saying
I don't feel I deserve a F/T sen. when I saw others take it and suffer while I baited
my time til it was convienent for me..thats' all

bob

Don't blame yourself because they chose to suffer. To each his reach. If p/t worked better for you, so be it. If others chose the security of 40 guaranteed hours per week, so be that. The point is we all have different circumstances. We combine those circumstances with our jobs to benefit us in the best way possible for our situation. But we should not be comdemned to a lifetime of adjusted seniority dates because we learned to use p/t or f/t to our benefit. Seniority is the only thing we have left. Just about everything else has been taken away, or drastically reduced. When the next merger happens, if we are a part of it, DOH is going to come in very handy. So we might as well get it now. Remember, you read it here first!

 

[lineguy43]

Not sure when this was (I'm guessing quite awhile ago, since you were the first PT hired), but you should have still gone ahead of him due to your longer service with the company. Perhaps this changed after you became an AMT? Either way, that's how it has been for some time now (at least 10 years).

"Last name seniority" only applies to DOH, or as a tiebreaker. In your case, yes you both had the same FT seniority, but on the master seniority list, you should have been listed first.


EDIT: Not for nothing, but in my station we had 2 PT'ers with the same last name get FT on the same date. The one with more company seniority is listed first, and bids first.

Hi Kev,
Yes it was some time ago summer 1988 to be exact.

 

[bob dylan]

Don't blame yourself because they chose to suffer. To each his reach. If p/t worked better for you, so be it. If others chose the security of 40 guaranteed hours per week, so be that. The point is we all have different circumstances. We combine those circumstances with our jobs to benefit us in the best way possible for our situation. But we should not be comdemned to a lifetime of adjusted seniority dates because we learned to use p/t or f/t to our benefit. Seniority is the only thing we have left. Just about everything else has been taken away, or drastically reduced. When the next merger happens, if we are a part of it, DOH is going to come in very handy. So we might as well get it now. Remember, you read it here first!

Again, I just disagree. I feel my DOH should be across the board except for
bidding my F/T shift. I should still keep my DOH in the event of layoffs or
other benifits, vacation,etc... You seem to want your DOH in all cases and
especially bidding shifts and thats' where we disagree. I'm not blaming myself
I'm just seeing what I see as fair for bidding purposes only. You can reply
again but I'm getting tired of typing the same thing. You want it across the board
as do I , except I believe that in bidding shifts a different sen. should be used. Once
again DOH except in bidding. I understand your plight and as I already stated it would
move me up significantly on the F/T roster. I just know I took advantage of the past
system knowing I was accruing 1/2 sen. remaining P/T and did so. Now I can't see
complaining about this....sorry.

I'm moving on to other posts'. I do see your point but either way I'm fine but if it
goes for a vote, I know what I'll vote for.

Lets' get an agreement working and then we can deal with the articles of DOH.


bob

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Bob Dylan,
I just recieved a call from a friend at LAX that is West. He was curious how we handle seniority matters at East. I really couldn't give him an honest answer because there are so many intangibles that come into play.

I asked him how is it done with the West, and he said that there is one seniority list for everyone. It is straight DOH for everything. Then it is broken down to f/t and p/t. Each going by DOH, in their individual category. I then asked how many hours is a p/t scheduled each day. This was his answer.

1. 4 hours per day - 5 days a week - 20 hours total per week

2. 5 hours per day - 4 days a week - 20 hours total per week

3. 6 hours per day - 5 days a week - 30 hours total per week

Bob,
My question to you is how would you even out the playing field for bidding purposes, when p/t'ers are scheduled different hours?

 

[Ramp Rogue]

Has anyone noticed how in the M & R t/a that there is no concrete method of stating what the seniority integration is going to be? Seniority will be administered in a fair and equitable manner. Who gets to decide what is fair & equitable? Who gets the fair, and who gets the equitable? Or do you get a little of each? That is the same cop out that has been given to the ramp all of these years. Don't let the iam fool you M & R. Make them state exactly how seniority will be integrated. It is your airline life that is at stake here.

 

[JoeDirt]

I don't think M&R has ever had P/T so more than likely it will be straight DOH.

 

[piedmont1985]

Okay....I am going to give my thoughts.

Hired in Jun 1985 p/t ...f/t status in Nov 1986 dropped to the bottom of the bidding list ....then supervisor(lead agent) in Jul 1989.dropped to the bottom of the bidding list.....Now I lose my "class time" because of the contract. Do I think that is fair? No, I don't. But in my opinion, I think it should
be DOH.....then date of classification...(meaning lead time)...

after all this...I just get a feb 1986 bid date.....with no mention of lead time...